Yeomanry In Salonika

[Gardenerbill]

According to the history of the Derbyshire Yeomary, the Derbys and the Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry each had a squadron with the 10th Irish Division, the first British forces to arrive in Salonika. It goes on to state that they played a significiant role in fighting with the Bulgarians (presumably Kosturino though I can't find any reference in 'Under the Devils Eye') and in the rearguard action as the 10th division and the French withdrew back to Salonika.

[Gardenerbill]

Within days of arriving in Salonika the Derbyshire Yeomanry were out patrolling. They attempted to use the Austrian maps to navigate and there is a page or so describing how poor these maps were. Villages marked on the maps weren't where they should have been, some had the wrong names and some were ancient ruins. At first they thought they were lost until they realised it was the maps. The story goes that the map maker spent his time in the towns such as Seres and asked the local farmers to point out where their villages were and compiled the maps on that basis. The Yeomanry started to draw up their own maps based on observation, notes taken on patrol and some rudimentary triangulation.

To prove the point, I attempted to join 2 of the Austrian maps to make a composite of the valley east of Lake Doiran, here is the result:

If you compare this with the British Akindzali Military map (available on CD from the Salonika Campaign Society) you will see the difference.

[Gardenerbill]

I have just found another interesting incident in the Derbyshire Yeomanry history that I don't remember coming across before. In December, shortly after the Greeks demobilised in the autumn of 1916, this happened:

'On the 29th it looked as if we were to find ourselves involved in another war; for reservists of the Greek Royalist Regiments, who were now well behind us, and theoretically in the process of demobilisation, commenced to wage war on us. The trouble was soon quashed, however, though not without fighting in which the Regiment participated.

On the morning of that day "C" squadron, under Major D'Arcy Clark, was suddenly ordered to move, together with the South Notts, to operate against these reservists on the line Stavros to Langavuk The movement was quickly carried out, and an engagement resulted with loss to the Greeks amounting to seven killed, a number wounded, and forty six prisoners. The squadron rejoined at Orljak after a fortnight's absence.'

[Guest]

The Greeks were rather flaky in the Great War...

[Gardenerbill]

Handing over the Rupel pass fort to the Bulgarians being a case in point!

However, Colonel Strutt goes on to praise the Greek Infantry's courage and determination during the advance into Bulgaria in September 1918.

[apwright]

I have just found another interesting incident in the Derbyshire Yeomanry history that I don't remember coming across before. In December, shortly after the Greeks joined the war in the autumn of 1917, this happened:

'On the 29th it looked as if we were to find ourselves involved in another war; for reservists of the Greek Royalist Regiments, who were now well behind us, and theoretically in the process of demobilisation, commenced to wage war on us. The trouble was soon quashed, however, though not without fighting in which the Regiment participated.

On the morning of that day "C" squadron, under Major D'Arcy Clark, was suddenly ordered to move, together with the South Notts, to operate against these reservists on the line Stavros to Langavuk The movement was quickly carried out, and an engagement resulted with loss to the Greeks amounting to seven killed, a number wounded, and forty six prisoners. The squadron rejoined at Orljak after a fortnight's absence.'

This sounds more like December 1916! Does it really say Dec. 1917? There shouldn't have been any Greek troops in that region by Dec.'17. The first corps of the Royalist army were remobilising and training at Nares by then.

Adrian

[apwright]

Re. the maps...
If you refer to the editions of the Austrian maps that the British Army actually used, then the discrepancies are not so great.

You have to be careful with the maps at lazarus.elte.hu because they're from various editions. The Edesza section (the left part of your composite) is from 1904, while the Szaloniki section (on the right) is undated but "partially corrected up to June 1917"! It shows railway lines built by the Allies etc., but the updates seem to have been made hurriedly and not very accurately! The railway line does not line up between the two maps (if you align them by the grid lines!)

The British Army appear to have used the 1903 editions, adding English legends and renaming them "40º 41º Vodena" and "41º 41º Saloniki". The latter is available on the original SCS CD as Saloniki.jpg. I don't have the updated CD to know if it also includes the Vodena section, but a mate of mine here recently bought an example on eBay.
The Brits also marked the roads in red, unbroken lines for main roads, broken for roads "believed capable of taking wheeled traffic, and dotted for "important tracks". But this seems also to have been haphazard and prone to error. Note how the red broken line on the Saloniki section (right half of my scan above) actually follows the railway line as far as Čakli!

Adrian

[apwright]

Here are the two maps from lazarus.elte.hu aligned by the grid, rather than by the railway! Again, not so bad - the villages are in approximately the correct locations/directions from each other, and the contour lines and rivers line up quite well, but the railway and roads on the 1917-updated edition (right) don't match those on the 1904 map on the left.

Adrian

[Gardenerbill]

Adrian, with reference to the 'Greek Incident' I found a mistake in my notes, I checked the reference in the book and you are quite right it was December 1916, post duly edited to avoid confusion.

On the subject of the maps I did get them from the Lazarus web site but I was not aware that they were different editions, but they should still line up. Before I acquired the SCS map CD I still found these maps useful in getting a general feel for the geography of the area. They also frequently have 2 versions of place names useful when trying to find locations of units etc.

[Gardenerbill]

Just had a search through the LLT Salonika divisions and there are only 3 Yeomanry regiments listed; the Surrey Yeomanry, the Derbyshire Yeomanry and the Lothian and Border Horse Yeomanry. I assume this is correct?

[jp1885]

Excuse my ignorance, but where do you fins the maps on lazarus.elte.hu? (Assuming you don't need authorised access)

[Guest]

Just had a search through the LLT Salonika divisions and there are only 3 Yeomanry regiments listed; the Surrey Yeomanry, the Derbyshire Yeomanry and the Lothian and Border Horse Yeomanry. I assume this is correct?

There were more...

1/1st South Notts Hussars Feb 1916- June 1917

1/1st Sherwood Rangers - ditto

1/1st City of London Yeomanry (Rough Riders) Nov 1916 to Jun 1917

1/1st County of London Yeomanry Middlesex Hussars - ditto

1/3rd County of London Yeomanry (Sharpshooters) - ditto

And, reformed as Infantry

1/1st Lovat's Scouts (as 10th (Lovat's Scouts) Bn Cameron Highalnders Oct 1916 - Jun 1918

1/3rd Scottish Horse (ditto)

[apwright]

Excuse my ignorance, but where do you fins the maps on lazarus.elte.hu? (Assuming you don't need authorised access)

http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm

Adrian

[jp1885]

http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm

Adrian

Great, thanks!

[Gardenerbill]

I have now finished reading the Surrey Yeomanry and the Derbyshire Yeomanry Histories. I thought it might be interesting to compare their movements. In the early months of 1916 both were operating in the area around Lakes Langaza and Besik as far as Stavros on the Gulf of Orfano. By early summer Surrey A had moved across the Struma and were patrolling as far as Orfano and Drama at the southern end of the struma, whereas the Derbyshires had moved to the area around Kukus due north of Salonika eventually operating in the northern end of the Struma valley at Kopriva then Butkova, patrolling as far as Demirhissar, Elisan and Kumli on the East side of the valley.

The patrols at this time seem to be intelligence gathering particularly the whereabouts of the Greeks, the Bulgars and the Germans. There is no direct contact mentioned with the Bulgarians and Germans in the early months but the Derbyshires report seeing Bulgarian cavalry patrols and Uhlan patrols whilst in the Kilindir area.

Were all German cavalry referred to as Uhlans or are they a particular regiment?

[Guest]

There is no direct contact mentioned with the Bulgarians and Germans at this stage but the Derbyshires report seeing Bulgarian cavalry patrols and Uhlan patrols whilst in the Kilindir area.

Were all German cavalry referred to as Uhlans or are they a particular regiment?

Interesting. The DY history has a small troop level patrol that turns into a charge against the Bulgars...with disastrous consequences. Lt Fielding's troop from memory. Charged a position and got caught in heavy fire. I think an MC and five MMs awarded for the actions that day -all named. One of the men - a very brave man - going back in to rescue some fallen. I suspect he knew he would almost certainly die. Twice. On another front it might have been recognised in a different way. Their mini Balaklava. The sort of blood and guts and forgotten sacrifice in the so-called 'side-shows' that is obfuscated by the dominance of the Western Front.

[Gardenerbill]

Martin, do you have a rough date for this action? The DY history records a number of attempts to capture a Uhlan patrol at this time all of which were foiled at the last minute, once by a French patrol giving the game away.

[Gardenerbill]

The DY history relates that the Uhlans attempted to draw our patrols into traps but never succeeded. There are also descriptions of contact between the Sherwood Rangers and the German patrols. There is a rescue mission carried out by Lt Keith where a group of gunnery officers on a reconnaissance patrol had got themselves surrounded. They refer to this area around Kilindir as the "Gola Ridge" and they arrived here at the end of March and left towards the end of June. This is covered in chapter X. the DY attempts to ambush the enemy patrols are pages 122 to 123.

[Gardenerbill]

Edited post #40 should be Surrey A squadron.

Surrey Yeomanry B squadron arrived in Salonika in December 1915, they were camped between Ajvatle and Dremiglava 6 miles from Salonika and patrolling the Seres road.

In January they were patrolling as far as Demirhissar and Seres on the eastern edge of the Struma valley. In February they had moved to near Guvesne and in May they were camped at Orljak on the western edge of the Struma valley. So where A squadron were based at the south end of the valley, B were operating in the mid section, patrols going out to; Vetrina, Poroj, Kopriva, Prosenik and Butkovo.

[Guest]

Lt W M B Fielding MC account (A Sqn). 20th August 1916 page 140....

"......By about 7 pm a considerable number of Bulgars were working their war around our left flank, and looked as if they might cut off Elisan from Brigade Headquarters at Kopriva bridge

I was ordered to take my Troop to a sunk road about 300 yards to the north-west of Elisan and to hold on to that flank. After being there for a short time [Captain] G Johnson brought me orders to mount my Troop and go and charge a party of Bulgars, about thirty to fifty in number who were in the open and working their way round our left flank about one mile north-west of Elisan (These orders were issue by the infantry Major and it is very doubtful, under the circumstances, whether they should ever have been given. - Ed)

I mounted the Troop and advanced in extended order. So soon as we left the sunk road a terrific fire was opened on us. I looked back soon after we had started and saw that G Johnson , instead of going back to the Squadron at Elisan had turned round and and was coming on too. After going for a quarter of a mile we came to a deep ditch about ten yards wide with a high bank on the landing side. This was grown up with bull-rushes and when we jumped into the iddle of it the horses sank to their bellies in mud. However I believe that everyone got over all right. I got hit in the leg shortly after this and I fancy that most of the Troop had been put out of action by this time. fifty yards from the enemy I gave the order - CHARGE!.

There were five men left then and as far as I can remember they were Sergeant Briggs, H Crowther, A Holt, Corporal Weston , and the name of the fifth man I do not remember. They were magnificent and let out a roar like lions but every one of them was rolled over. I was shot again at point blank range and as my horse was badly hit in five places and the off-side reins shot through I thought it time to leave.

Sergeant Briggs had I believe three horses shot under him in this show. As often as his own horse was hit, he caught another loose horse and had no sooner mounted that than he was hit through the leg and his horse killed; he managed to catch another horse but that was killed when he had only ridden back a short way. G Johnson and Corporal Abbott then got hold of Sergeant Briggs and between them they managed to get several of the wounded men back, being heavily fired on the whole while.. It appears that besides the party of Bulgars in the open whom I was ordered to charge, there was also a force of several hundred in the maize close by and it was this force that did the most damage.

For some unknown reason they stayed where thy were that night but had they come on things might have been very serious indeed. The Troop was about twenty strong when we started. Lance-corporal Wright, Corporal Weston, Troopers Austin H H Hall, P W Hall, A Holt and Mansfield were either killed or missing. Sergeant Briggs, Lance Corporal Saddington, Trooper Ironmonger and SS Milne were wounded, Trooper Crowder taken prisoner and SS Bott shell shock. The remainder of the troop all ha their horses shot but managed to get back themselves...".

The author (Strutt) also adds more detail. Capt G Johnson was awarded the DSO . Fielding had already been awarded the MC for previous actions. Six Military Medals were awarded to men involved in this charge, although the awards came much later - presumably as a result of this and other actions. I think this was a fairly typical kind of opportunistic small scale actions that were a regular feature of the side shows. Tiny in scale, but nevertheless for the men who took part a day that stayed with them for a long time. MG

[Gardenerbill]

Ah that one, just after the move from the "Gola Ridge" to Kopriva and Butkova in the Struma valley. The British army's policy of harassing the enemy in between battles with constant patrolling and small scale actions to keep them on their toes is clearly evident in all the books you read on the Salonika campaign and although the infantry tended to shut down for the summer the Yeomanry never had that luxury as far as I can tell, and were almost constantly patrolling.

[Gardenerbill]

Following on from Martin's post, here are some of the actions the DY were involved in during the latter months of 1916.

End of August

Helping to repel the Bulgarian advance at Demirhissar

Heavy fighting at Elisan and Kumli including the charge that Martin mentioned

September

Demonstrations against Godeli, Orljak Bridge, Kato-Dodeli and Anna-Godeli.

Further raid on Kato-Dodeli and Anna-Godeli.

October

Ambushing a Bulgarian patrol at Ceftli-Tefik

Demonstration against the line at Nihor-Tumbitza-Virhanli

November

Capture of a Bulgarian patrol near Pheasant wood

December

Supporting the Infantry attack on Tumbitza

The incident with the Greek Royalists mentioned earlier in post #28

Supporting a "Foray at Kupra"

And all the while going out on daily patrol, subject to sniper fire, potential ambush and artillery fire.

Throw in Malaria, dysentery, sand fly fever etc........ yeah easy life up the Struma!

[Gardenerbill]

The first encounter with the enemy for the Surrey Yeomanry was on the 4th of August 1916, when a B squadron patrol ran into about 60 Bulgarian Infantry at Butkovo and managed to escape with one injured man.

In the mean time A squadron were supporting the engineers blowing up railway bridges and in early September a patrol came under heavy fire near Karacol at the "White house".

On October 9th B took part in a demonstration against Barakli-Dzuma, followed 4 days later by a failed attack then on the 31st the village was successfully taken.

At the same time A were supporting the 81st Brigade in a demonstration against the Bulgarian line at Homodos-Seres and Agomah Seres.

I think that was it for 1916, there was a lot of activity in the Struma valley on both sides at this time as the combatants established their positions on either side of the river.

[Gardenerbill]

The rigours of life on patrol:

‘Hitherto I have given patrol actions in some detail, as I wished not only to bring out their varied nature, but the constant work, without rest, for both man and horse. Though these patrols may not have led to serious engagements or heavy casualties, they, nevertheless, meant that practically every day, providing that a patrol did it’s work conscientiously, some troop or other would come under fire-it might be at close range from a patch of maize, or it might be from snipers at long range, but that matters not at all, for the arrival of a bullet if it meets its billet has the same result. It is impossible for anyone to go out on patrol, even though everything appeared to be perfectly quiet and normal and yet call his life his own until he reaches camp again at nightfall. In addition to this, it must be remembered that camp was being continually changed, which entails no little trouble and exertion, and that even when things were quiet and the men were nominally having an “easy,” yet a considerable proportion of them had always to be “standing to,” waiting to go should any emergency arise. Having realised this, you will understand that a cavalry regiment doing patrol duties has a really hard time.’

Lt Col Strutt ‘The Derbyshire Yeomanry History 1914-1919’ page 149.

[Gardenerbill]

In the autumn of 1916 there was a major re-organisation that included removing the Yeomanry units from divisions. On the western front many Yeomanry units were converted to infantry, the same happened in Salonika as Martin mentioned in post #37, but most of the Yeomanry units in Salonika survived and were formed into new Corps Cavalry Regiments. Presumably the value of the Yeomanry in patrolling and intelligence gathering across the whole of the British sector of the front contributed to their survival. The Derbyshires and the Surreys were both included in the new XVI Corps Cavalry regiment and my Grandfathers ASC company the 801st became the Corps troops supply column.