Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Hospital Ships


Guest 2contemptable

Recommended Posts

My grandmother was a Staff Nurse in the TFNS. She won a MM in Salonika

Geoff

That was a unique award I think, for a TFNS Staff Nurse - what was her name?

Sue

Don't know if Geoff will surface again, but I think his grandmother must have been Daisy Ellen Dobbs.

Edited by Sue Light
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi there Ken and or Sue

I have been trying to contact you here, but with know luck...I read your posting about Doris Marion Green... and just wanted to let you know l am her grand daughter....would like to get intouch if we can.. My email is

tootypup@ncable.com.au

or

tootypup@hotmail.com

I don't know if you will see this.... but l have been trying... I am a new member here and still trying to work out how this forum runs..... so l am sorry for all this.

Would love to hear from you

Regards

Susan Russell-Smith

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hallo Susan

I did reply to your message this morning, by sending you a Forum email, but it doesn't seem that you received it. If you click on my name, and go back to the profile, then scroll down the left hand side right to the bottom of the page, there is a link to send an email. The option to send a 'message' doesn't work for me, because I prefer not to use the personal message system on the forum, but the email link should be fine.

Better still, why don't you go to the 'Women in the Great War' section, and start a 'new topic' about your grandmother, telling us what you know about her, and what you'd like to find out. I'm sure you'd get some response.

Regards ---- Sue

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Sue

I'm interested in in finding some details of the HS Sicilia a hospital ship on which a now deceeased family friend served as a nurse with the QAIMNS. She was then Doris Marion Green who was awarded, verfied by her MIC, a WW1 Trio with an mid for her services. I'm told that there may have been a Dr Bird on the ship at this time but cannot verify this. Doris later married an Australian Soldier whom she had nursed after he lost his leg.

I'd be most grateful for any assistance

Regards

Ken

Hi there Ken

Here are 2 photos for you of my grandmother Doris Marion Green and the HS Sicilia

I will have some more as soon as l get them onto my computer.

Regards

Susan Russell-Smith

post-21293-1179849051.jpg

post-21293-1179849093.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
Hi there Ken

Here are 2 photos for you of my grandmother Doris Marion Green and the HS Sicilia

I will have some more as soon as l get them onto my computer.

Regards

Susan Russell-Smith

Hello Susan,

I've been up in Arnhem land for the past few weeks and will be home at the end of June.

I will be in contact then. I'm Bill Parker's son inlaw and was making an enquiry on his behalf about Dr Bird and the HS Sicilia.

Regards

Ken Savage

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
Does anyone know where records of hospital ships are held. Also if VAD staff were employed on board, or was they all qualified nurses as opposed to volunteers. Has anyone heard of HMHS Wanilla or something similar??

Thanks in advance.

I have been doing some work on the loss of the 'Warilda' on behalf of a friend who is the granddaughter of Mrs Violet Long Dep Chief Controller of QMAAC who was drowned that night. The Court of Enquiry papers are in the National Archives under reference ADM 137/3420. At 10.15 pm on 2 August the Hospital Ship Warilda sailed from Le Havre carrying 614 wounded, 70 members of the Royal Army Medical Corps, 117 crew and a small contingent of QMAAC under the command of Mrs Long.

According to the Court of Enquiry, held on Tuesday 6 August 1918 at the Navigation School in Portsmouth Dockyard, soon after 1am on 3 August the Warilda was sailing at 14 knots in mid Channel escorted by the destroyers P39 and P45 when a lookout sighted a submarine on the surface. At 1.35am she was hit by a torpedo but remained afloat. She was taken in tow by one of the desroyers while the other went in search of the submarine but after about ten minutes it became apparent that she would not stay afloat. The Warilda's Captain put into effect well-rehearsed plans to evacuate the patients. One of the destroyers came alongside to take off the seriously wounded.

The ship's boats were also being launched and, in the words of Major G W Milne, OC Troops, to the Court of Enquiry : " Most of the boats were lowered to the water, among them No.4 boat (port side) which contained, among others, the lady passengers. For some reason the forward fall jammed and, being unable to get free and the ship having way on, the boat was swamped. Mrs Long, Chief Controller in the QMAAC, and Private Robinson, 21479, Nursing Orderly RAMC, were drowned". The Court of Enquiry exonerated the captain of the Warilda from any blame and stated " The conduct and behaviour of the Captain, Officers and men of the SS Warilda, and of the medical officers, staff and wounded on board was excellent. Coolness and discipline was maintained throughout and everyone appears to have acted in accordance with the highest British traditions."

By the way Warilda was armed and at least two of the RN gun crew gave evidence to the Court of Enquiry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

andyp,

There was no reason for the Warilda not to be armed, as she was a Hospital Transport, not a Hospital Ship.

Hospital Transports were legally entitled to be armed, as well as being allowed to carry war materials.

Best wishes

David

Link to comment
Share on other sites

andyp,

There was no reason for the Warilda not to be armed, as she was a Hospital Transport, not a Hospital Ship.

Hospital Transports were legally entitled to be armed, as well as being allowed to carry war materials.

Best wishes

David

Historically hospital ships were medium sized frigates with the upper level of guns removed (the French referred to these as "en flute" so that nearly all or most hospital ships were in fact still armed. In the Crimean War the Royal Navy hospital ship "Belle Isle" acquitted herself rather well when still designated a hospital ship participated in the bombardment of one or more Russian Baltic sea defences/ports! During the American Civil War several Union hospital ships were also minimally armed with one or more cannon and most carried armed troops (that is acted as hospital transports AND troop transports).

John

Toronto

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hi , hope this helps

HMHS Warlida

Military Hospital Ship, and Troopship

Built by Wm Beardmore & Company Dalmuir, Yard No 505 in 1912 for the Adelaide Steamship Company. Torpedoed and sunk 3/8/1918.

7713 grt

412.2 ft x 57 ft

steam, 16 knots

546 casualties

Requisitioned first as His Majesty's Australian Troopship, and then as a Military Hospital Ship. Served 25/7/1916-3/8/1918 and was used on the Southampton - Le Havre route.

On 3/8/1918, at 1.30 am, while on a voyage from Le Havre, she was torpedoed and sunk by the German submarine UC-49 in the English Channel. There were 471 sick and wounded on board, 439 of these were cot cases. The losses were very heavy - 115 patients, one nursing sister, and an RAMC orderly. The rest of the patients, staff and crew were cleared from the ship within an hour. She sank 30 minutes later.

tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hi , hope this helps

HMHS Warlida

Military Hospital Ship, and Troopship

Built by Wm Beardmore & Company Dalmuir, Yard No 505 in 1912 for the Adelaide Steamship Company. Torpedoed and sunk 3/8/1918.

7713 grt

412.2 ft x 57 ft

steam, 16 knots

546 casualties

Requisitioned first as His Majesty's Australian Troopship, and then as a Military Hospital Ship. Served 25/7/1916-3/8/1918 and was used on the Southampton - Le Havre route.

On 3/8/1918, at 1.30 am, while on a voyage from Le Havre, she was torpedoed and sunk by the German submarine UC-49 in the English Channel. There were 471 sick and wounded on board, 439 of these were cot cases. The losses were very heavy - 115 patients, one nursing sister, and an RAMC orderly. The rest of the patients, staff and crew were cleared from the ship within an hour. She sank 30 minutes later.

tony

Tony, It was the Warilda so I assume that you made a spelling mistake. But the point of my post is to say that it was not a nursing sister who died but Violet Long, Chief Controller of the QMAAC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony, It was the Warilda so I assume that you made a spelling mistake. But the point of my post is to say that it was not a nursing sister who died but Violet Long, Chief Controller of the QMAAC.

hi,jim, you are quite correct, spelling mistake, photo of warilde, regards tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Bernard

I would be pleased if I could have a copy of the Asturias photo. If this is still available then I can let you have my email address.

Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
  • 2 years later...

Just to add a quick note to this, part of the log books for the Warilda are available through the National Archives of Australia - 1915,1916 & 1917. Also some passenger lists, which is supposed to include crew, standing orders, medical organisations voyage reports for HMAT Warilda A 69 & a summary of activities. There are also reports of her torpedoing in 1918.

Similar information available for the HMAT Wandilla - A62.

Go the the National Archives of Australia, RecordSearch, and type in the ships' name - a fair bit of info comes up for all the Australian requisitioned vessels.

From my research, I can also say that the Warilda was part of Convoys 12 in October 1915,17 in February 1916 & 21 in May 1916, and the Wandilla was part of Convoys 8 in June 1915, 14 in November 1915, 17 in February 1916 & 21 in June 1916.

As I understand it, all the HMAT ships were used to transport troops to the front, and to bring back casualties.

Should also have added, information on hospital and transport ships available online at the Australian War Memorial website - Official History of Australia in the War of 1914-1918, Volume 9, chapter 13 - Transports, Hospital Ships and Dockyards. Also check appendix 6 - Merchant Ships Employed in Government War-Service. The Australian National Maritime Museum also has available online the very hard to find book Sea Transport of the AIF, which is a gem. It was prepared in the Naval Transport Board by Greville Tregarthen.

Edited by Roseclipt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi there Ken

Here are 2 photos for you of my grandmother Doris Marion Green and the HS Sicilia

I will have some more as soon as l get them onto my computer.

Regards

Susan Russell-Smith

Hi Susan

I am also interested to find out more about HMHS Sicilia, as my great-grandfather served with P&O as an engineer on the Sicilia, from November 1916 to October 1917.

I would very much like to obtain copies of any surviving photos, papers and other information, that can help to piece together a picture of life on the Sicilia. I would be most grateful for whatever you are able to share.

The National Archives at Kew actually have the war diary of HMHS Sicilia, for the period June 1917 - July 1919 (ref. WO 95/4148). I have taken pictures of entries for the period June - November 1917 and am happy to share these with you.

Best regards

D.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

You can see a photo of the HS Sicilia taken by my great uncle at Basra in March 1916, he was arraiving with the 2/6th Gurkha Rifles to join the MEF:

http://gillww1.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/gtg-photo-album-p-20.jpg

Photos of other ships and units in the campaign can be found on my post here: http://gillww1.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/26th-gurkha-rifles-in-mesopotamia-1916/

David

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Greetings all,

The Wandilla carried a female nursing staff to and from Australia where it was used. I have only one Australian nurse on the Warialda (not sure of spelling here) and that was a nurse who had come home for a rest and went back to the war again on this ship. The Warialda may have had a male nursing staff on board...

I have been studying hospital and transport ships carrying wounded in the Med in 1915 and I have yet to find a VAD working on board. That's not to say that they weren't used. I have a feeling there may have been some on the very big ships eg. Aquitania, Brittania.

Can I make a plea for the Plumridge book to get a big update and clean out - there is clear confusion between ships 'in the Gallipoli campaign' and ships 'at Gallipoli', for example.

Of course, in 1915 many hospital ships in the Med had Australian nurses on board, from both the Australian Army Nursing Service, and the QAIMNSR. For example, the Assaye which Sue mentioned had an all Australian nursing staff later in 1915.

cheers

Kirsty

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kirsty,

With regard to the ship name, I think you are referring to the hospital ship Warilda.

As for the VADs, I can certainly confirm that some were aboard the Britannic, in fact one of them (Sheila Macbeth) is even interviewed by Jacques Cousteau in his 1977 documentary Calypso's Search for the Britannic. Like you, I'm not sure what the policy would have been for the smaller hospital ships, although it wasn't unknown for medical and nursing staff to be temporarily transferred to the busier ships while their own vessel was in home port, in which case the VADs could have moved around quite a bit.

S.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Until 1915 all VADs were under the control of the Joint War Committee (BRCS and St. John) and were not working in any hospitals/units under War Office control. The WO agreed to them working in military hospitals in the UK from February 1915 and overseas from June of that year. So there was no possibility of VADs working on hospital ships prior to June 1915, though I don't have a date when they were first appointed to the ships.

Sue

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am fairly sure that at least one of the VADs in 'Flowers of No Man's Land' speaks of working on transport ships with casualties returning from Gallipoli.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello,

In brief, the Geneva Convention states that:

Hospital ships must be clearly marked and illuminated after dark.

All hospital ship identification must be registered with the opposing force.

All Sailing details (destination, course, time of departure etc.) had to be notified prior to the ships departure.

Hospital ships were not to sail in convoy.

Hospital ships could be stopped and boarded for inspection by the enemy.

The Admiralty eventually got fed up with Hospital Ships finding themselves in minefields, which German U-boats had laid with the prior knowledge they had regarding the course and direction the Hospital Ships were taking.

When challenged, the German's used the excuse that they had legitimately laid the mines in the shipping lanes used for commercial purposes.

I think it was in 1917 that the UK Government began reducing the use of Hospital ships, in favour of Ambulance Transport ships, which could be protected in convoys, travel in darkness with no hospital livery, and could be armed and given camouflage schemes. They carried the same crew as a hospital ship.

The compliment of medical staff would consist of:

RAMC Doctors

Nurses, Q.M's.

Orderlies RAMC

St. John Ambulance, Royal Naval Auxiliary Sick Berth Reserve

V.A.D's & Misc.

These ships had to be manned by Non-combatants.

James

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...