Michael Lowrey Posted 30 October , 2004 Share Posted 30 October , 2004 After reading a brief description of the incident in Innes MCartney's Lost Patrols: Submarine Wrecks of the English Channel, it seems Warilda was actually a legitimate target. The Hague Convention set standards for hospital ships, which were suppose to be left alone. Ambulance transports did not meet those standards: they could be armed, escorted in military convoys, and carried things besided wounded (like cargo going to the front while on the way to France), all of which were no-nos for hospital ships. In fact, British Vessels Lost at Sea lists Warilda as being an armed vessel... The submarine responsible for sinking Warilda, the UC 49, was sunk with all hands on August 8, 1918 off Dartmouth. We obviously do not know the perceptions of her CO while attacking Warilda, but I doubt he was aware she was carrying wounded. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 30 October , 2004 Share Posted 30 October , 2004 Michael, I’m sure that's true about the Warilda, but in general I don't think the reasoning is sound – the terms of the Geneva convention also failed to protect: Asturias torpedoed on 21st March 1917 - She had also been the target in a previous attack on the 1st February 1915, in which the master managed to alter course. Donegal 17th April 1917 Dover Castle 26th May 1917 Guildford Castle 10 March 1918 Gloucester Castle 30th March 1917 Lanfranc 17th April 1917 Llandovery Castle 27th June 1918 With the exception of the Donegal [not sure] I believe all the others to be Hospital Ships as opposed to transports. Regards - Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 30 October , 2004 Share Posted 30 October , 2004 Don't put the blame on us Both Warilda & Wandilla were "lent to the Admiralty" in 1916 according to the Official History [Australia] Pat No, I've just got a serious interest in the staffing of the ships. Has anyone got any details on the make-up of the medical staff on Australian and New Zealand Hospital ships in general - Grantala, Karanowna, Karoola and Maheno for instance? Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 3 November , 2004 Share Posted 3 November , 2004 G'day Sue Sorry I can't help other than to mention that the Australian on-line Official History of WW1 has a volume on the Royal Aust Navy which in turn has a chapter on Hospital Ships etc [p406] A quick troll of the on line Medical Histories' Index does not have a specific reference to this topic, but a more experienced eye might spot something relevant. Good Luck Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 3 November , 2004 Share Posted 3 November , 2004 Pat Thanks for the reference. I know that Australian nurses did serve on the ships, but no idea really how many, and what grade etc. It would just add to the knowledge base. Regards - Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak Posted 31 January , 2006 Share Posted 31 January , 2006 Sue, Many thanks for taking the time and trouble to reply to my personal message and send me the information on the Hospital Ship "Sicilia." As your personal message sysyem does not seem to be accepting messages at present, this was the only way I could send you my thanks. Kind regards, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sav Posted 11 March , 2007 Share Posted 11 March , 2007 Hello Sue I'm interested in in finding some details of the HS Sicilia a hospital ship on which a now deceeased family friend served as a nurse with the QAIMNS. She was then Doris Marion Green who was awarded, verfied by her MIC, a WW1 Trio with an mid for her services. I'm told that there may have been a Dr Bird on the ship at this time but cannot verify this. Doris later married an Australian Soldier whom she had nursed after he lost his leg. I'd be most grateful for any assistance Regards Ken Doris_Marion_Green_MIC.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilinsky Posted 11 March , 2007 Share Posted 11 March , 2007 The National Archives in Kew (England) do indeed hold a very extensive though not complete run of most of the major British hospital ships including even smaller units such as hospital barge flotillas in France. Additional papers and references will be found in the various Admiralty history, cases, and hospital muster books amongst other sources. Foreign Office records and War Office records (Quartermaster-General's) also contain fairly numerous references and files on hospital ships. I hope this helps you save your money so you can travel from Australia to England(I am saving my Canuck bucks so that I can travel to the dear ole mother country!) John Toronto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regatta Posted 20 March , 2007 Share Posted 20 March , 2007 Hi, newby poster here, I am looking for the Hospital Ship "Ella". Have gone to National Archives but did not get far. Do you have a link to the Hospital Ships area? Noel Hobart Tasmania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sav Posted 20 March , 2007 Share Posted 20 March , 2007 Hi, newby poster here, I am looking for the Hospital Ship "Ella". Have gone to National Archives but did not get far. Do you have a link to the Hospital Ships area? Noel Hobart Tasmania I have only tried Google Noel Rgds Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadsac Posted 20 March , 2007 Share Posted 20 March , 2007 Afraid to inform NO logs re WANDILLA in PRO. Sadsac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regatta Posted 21 March , 2007 Share Posted 21 March , 2007 I have only tried Google Noel Rgds Ken Thanks Ken, Now know that the "Ella" was a cross channel ship Southampton-Cherbourg (Built 1881 of 820 tons), in 1913 she was sold to the Shipping Federation. My Great Grandfather Captain J G Gray was District Registrar of The Shipping Federation in Bristol from September 1913 until September 1935. It is believed that he captained the "Ella" as she was used as a hospital ship and his two sisters were nurses on board. Any help in these areas would be fantastic regards Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 21 March , 2007 Share Posted 21 March , 2007 he only Hospital ship I can find that looks similar is the Ellora. which was taken into service 12/11/15 until 10/01/20. The ship accomodated aproximatly 475. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwsmith Posted 23 March , 2007 Share Posted 23 March , 2007 It was probably the 'Warilda', which was in service from 25th July 1916 until 3rd August 1918, and had accommodation for 546. She was torpedoed on the latter date, and this account is taken from 'Hospital Ships and Ambulance Trains' by John Plumridge. 'The hospital ship Warilda was torpedoed in the English Channel at 1.30 am on 3 August, 1918, when reutrning from Le Havre. Of the 471 sick and wounded on board, 439 were cot cases. The losses were very heavy - 115 patients, one nursing sister and an RAMC orderly. The rest of the patients, staff and crew were cleared from the ship within an hour. She sank 30 minutes later.' The records of only one hospital ship exist at the National Archives, and that is the Assaye. The staff would have been mainly trained nurses of Queen Alexandra's Imperial Military Nursing Service and the Territorial Force Nursing Service, and medical officers and male orderlies of the RAMC. But it was possible that there were some untrained members of the VAD, either as permanent staff, or simply working on their passage to and from France. Regards - Sue Hi Sue, Do you have Plumridge's book and if so does it mention SS Duneda? My grandfather was transported to England in early November 1914 after a shrapnel wound at 1st Ypres and left me a photo of the ship. Hope you can help. Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 23 March , 2007 Share Posted 23 March , 2007 This is the list from Plumridges book Mick pt2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regatta Posted 26 March , 2007 Share Posted 26 March , 2007 re Hospital Ship "Ella" I am not familiar with the Plumridge book and it is not in a Tasmanian library. Is the list above a complete list of Hospital Ships? The name is definitely "Ella" and she was an ex-railways cross channel ferry that the Shipping Federation owned pre war to transport seaman, I believe for strike breaking. My grandfathers enlistment for overseas service attestation form shows his next of kin as 'Father and Mother on Hospital Ship ELLA England' (23rd June 1915) Any directions appreciated Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilinsky Posted 26 March , 2007 Share Posted 26 March , 2007 The Plumbridge 1975 published book (no other editions) was a fine survey of British hospitals and ambulance trains as well from the early 17th century in the case of the former and the late 19th century in the case of the latter. It is still a quite useful survey. In the text and in appendices it has lists of hospital ships derived from the Admiralty's hospital and / or ship muster books. John Toronto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regatta Posted 26 March , 2007 Share Posted 26 March , 2007 re Hospital Ship "Ella" I am not familiar with the Plumridge book and it is not in a Tasmanian library. Is the list above a complete list of Hospital Ships? The name is definitely "Ella" and she was an ex-railways cross channel ferry that the Shipping Federation owned pre war to transport seaman, I believe for strike breaking. My grandfathers enlistment for overseas service attestation form shows his next of kin as 'Father and Mother on Hospital Ship ELLA England' (23rd June 1915) Any directions appreciated Noel Just found this: The History of the Shipping Federation by LH Powell (1950 London): At the outbreak of the War the Shipping Federation owned three vessels PARIS, ELLA and LADY JOCELYN. Used as depot ships the ELLA and PARIS were seaworthy and certified to carry passengers. They were used to transport labour to ports affected by industrial disputes. 'In the early days of the First World War the three depot vessels were taken over by the Admiralty for war service. At the end of hostilities the PARIS and LADY JOCELYN were found to be unsuitable for further service to the Federation. In addition to monetary compensation, the Admiralty handed over the hulk of the sailing ship ARRANMORE, which had been in the hands of the Germans, renamed the WALTRUATE and converted as a depot ship for U-Boat crews. On coming into Federation ownership the hulk was renamed VINDICATRIX and adapted for Federation purposes' p.9 Noel ELLA was still owned by the Federation at the time of the 1926 General Strike as 'The Federation handed over to the Port Of London Authority its depot ship "ELLA" for housing some of this volunteer labour in the West India Dock.'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regatta Posted 26 March , 2007 Share Posted 26 March , 2007 Further to my last post re ELLA I have just found in the Shipping Federation history that the PARIS and ELLA were lent to the Belgian Government as hospital ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regatta Posted 29 March , 2007 Share Posted 29 March , 2007 Does anyone have any info or suggested sources on Belgian hospital ships? Would they just have been for transport or would they have been operating in port? My great aunts and grandmother were said to be nurses on board. Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilinsky Posted 30 March , 2007 Share Posted 30 March , 2007 Does anyone have any info or suggested sources on Belgian hospital ships? Would they just have been for transport or would they have been operating in port? My great aunts and grandmother were said to be nurses on board. Noel Check Plumbridge's book referred to above from 1975. He lists 4 major channel ferries owned by a Belgian steamship company and/or the Belgium government which were converted into ambulance transports. The Beligans may have also may limited use of ambulance barges. Email the Royal Military Museum in Brussels for information on these especially once you get the 4 names from the 1975 book. John Toronto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 30 March , 2007 Share Posted 30 March , 2007 The four Belgian ships were Stad Antwerpen, Jan Breydel, Pieter de Coninck and Ville de Liège. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regatta Posted 3 April , 2007 Share Posted 3 April , 2007 Mick thanks for that, have sent an email and await, Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard_Lewis Posted 3 April , 2007 Share Posted 3 April , 2007 Only a footnote: Colin Charles Thomas (Swansea Battalion) was brought home on the Asturias (I can see it in the list) after he was wounded at Mametz Wood, 10 July 1916. I have a photo of the ship (not brilliant but useable). If anyone wants a copy let me know - PM or e-mail. Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gbotting Posted 9 May , 2007 Share Posted 9 May , 2007 Does anyone know where records of hospital ships are held. Also if VAD staff were employed on board, or was they all qualified nurses as opposed to volunteers. Has anyone heard of HMHS Wanilla or something similar?? Thanks in advance. My apologies - I have come late to this discussion. My grandmother was a Staff Nurse in the TFNS. She won a MM in Salonika and was returning home to England on the Warilda when it was torpedoed. I have the letter she wrote to her father immediately after. It's interesting reading. She says that there were just seven women on board: two VADs, Mrs Long (Commander of the WAACs) and her orderly, two sisters of the TFNS and herself on board. Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now