Canadian kilts with pockets 1914

[bill24chev]

I have never fully understood the need for Khaki Kilt covers. I would have thought that the bare legs that would show, at least intermittently, would give the wearer away and if the bare legs were covered in mud so would be the Kilt.

I would also expect a BlackWatch/ Argyles', Gordons' or London Scottish Kilts splattered indiscriminately with mud would be a good Cam pattern .

[trajan]

I have never fully understood the need for Khaki Kilt covers....

Keeps the porridge smears and the stains of the tatties and neeps off the real thing?

[Steven Broomfield]

Kilts were infamously difficult to de-louse primarily because of the pleats. If i remember correctly there are several yards of cloth used in their manufacture.

According to Brian L Davis' British Army Uniforms and Insignia of World War Two, a kilt for a soldier of average size took between seven and eight yards of material. A lot of material would be taken up with the pleats at the back: these would vary with the check on the tartan, a smaller check requiring more pleats (amkes my London Jock one a doddle).

In 1940 it was estimated that a kilt (and accoutrements) cost approximately £4, whereas BD trousers were 11/4 (about 57p in modern money). Whereas the trousers used up 1lb 14 oz (work it out for yourself) of wool, a kilt required 4lb 61/2 oz.

Other reasons given for the kilt's ban on use were:

Very poor protection against gas

Unsuitable for trench warfare and did not lend itself to modern mechanised warfare

Worst possible item of clothing for attracting vermin (lice).

I also read in the book (dates to 1983 - forgot I had it!), is that as underwear was prohibited, kilted soldiers were forbidden to ascend the steps on an omnibus; indeed, if a bus came with no seats on the lower floor, the poor kiltie had to wait for the next one. Jst as well buses always come in pairs, I suppose (probably also why the 507 route running past London Scottish RHQ is always a single-decker. Thoughtful, TfL).

[Stoppage Drill]

Well, that's all b0llocks. Frederic Manning told the truth of it when he said that it is indecent to follow a kilted highlander too closely up the steps of a dugout. (The Middle Part of Fortune)

Anybody remember that photograph of a wounded kilted Commando which was on the front page of Signal after St Nazaire ?

(Liverpool Scottish 5 Tp No 2 Commando - last unit to wear the kilt into battle. Forbes tartan.)

[Steven Broomfield]

To be fair, the Highlander in Manning's book wasn't worried about being spotted by the fairer sex. And, yes, I know the pic. Davis states that members of the Liverpool Scottish were incorporated into No. 5 Troop of No. 2 Commando on their return from Norway; they were granted permission by Churchill to re-adopt the Forbes Tartan kilt, and wore it at St Nazaire.

[Stoppage Drill]

I've edited my previous post. It was disrespectful and I'm sorry.

This is the pic which appeared on the front of the Wehrmacht Signal magazine. It shows Pte Tom McCormack who died of his wounds some weeks after being captured.

[MBrockway]

I've edited my previous post. It was disrespectful and I'm sorry.

This is the pic which appeared on the front of the Wehrmacht Signal magazine. It shows Pte Tom McCormack who died of his wounds some weeks after being captured.

jock.jpg

Tom McCormack was billeted with my grandparents and mother in Ayr in 1941-42 and left from there to Operation Chariot. Tom was a good family friend. My mother remembers him keeping a Bren Gun under the bed!

It's a great shame for those that knew Tom that this photo is rolled out so often, but there's no denying its powerful impact.

We prefer to remember him thus ...

[Pictures courtesy Stephen McAllister & Pete Rogers]

As a result of the image of Tom at his lowest, he is very well remembered in St Nazaire today.

We visited his grave in Rennes during the Operation Chariot 70th Anniversary commemorations and placed a wreath backed with Forbes tartan on his headstone.

Tom was on board the Campbeltown when she rammed the dry dock gates and went ashore as a member of Donald Roy's bridgehead guard around the swing bridge across the Old Entrance to the basin that the demolition parties used for their evacuation route away from the forme ecluse.

He was very severely wounded by grenade splinters to the head/face. He was evacuated with the other surviving Charioteers heading to POW camps in Germany but only got as far as military hospital in Rennes. There he was tended until his death by a group of volunteer French medics lead by Dr. Jean Marquis in the requisitioned Lycée Jean Macé. One of the surviving Charioteers told us how he still remembers feeding Tom on the train with a spoon. They did not expect him to last the night, but Tom clung to life for a couple of weeks after the raid.

Prior to Chariot, he had served in Norway.

He is the only one of the Charioteers buried at Rennes.

Cheers,

Mark

[Steven Broomfield]

Mark - thanks for that. Very moving, and what a story.

[MBrockway]

"Wha's like us", eh?

You'll all notice Tom's wearing the kilt cover in the sad picture.

Ian Riley can perhaps confirm better than I, but as far as I'm aware, the permission to wear the kilt into battle was a specific concession wrested after much negotiation from the War Office by the Troop's officers and applied to 5 Troop (Liverpool Scottish), No 2 Commando only.

Here's what Dennis Reeves has to say on the matter ...

"The Troop [5 (Liverpool Scottish) Troop, No 2 Commando], in its desire to retain some of its Highland traditions, decided to re-adopt the kilt as their dress. This proposal was put to the Prime Minister, Winston Churchill,who agreed to sanction the kilt, or at least have a word in the right ear about it. So through the efforts of the Troop officers [Capt Andrew Davidson, Lt Donald Roy and Lt. John Proctor], especially Lieutenant Donald Roy, Forbes kilts were purchased in Glasgow, and were in turn bought by the men, either for cash, or by weekly instalments of five shillings."

[p.211, Dennis Reeves - Special Service of a Hazardous Nature: The Story of the Liverpool Scottish involvement in Special Forces Operations During World War Two 1939-1945 (Liverpool Scottish Regimental Museum Trust 2007)]

5 Troop, 2 Commando appears to be the last complete unit in the British Army that went into battle in the kilt. There were later instances of individuals wearing kilts in battle - e.g. Bill Millin on D-Day and Capt James Ogilvie at Arnhem - and I believe some complete Canadian highland units managed to go into battle in the kilt late in the war.

Mark

[Steven Broomfield]

Brian L Davis'book referred to above certainly agrees with the above.