Who is This ? ? ?

[Fattyowls]

No, don't stop on my account, everyone's having WAY too much fun at my expense. So the dog is called JCB, what's my prize? And don't say waffles.......

 

I'll try to concentrate later but I've received three diverting pieces of information. Two are about my research interests which I'm digesting (alongside tortilla chips and guacamole, probably in slightly too large a quantity not to impair complete concentration). Suffice to say Promenade has risen even further in my estimation and in a separate development my football club's memorial document has got a bit less accurate. I'm trying to double check the facts but it's probably A Good Thing before new plaques are commissioned. And I've also had a very interesting article which I'm going to have to give my full attention.

 

Pete.

[Marilyne]

I'll just help Pete out of his misery... 

 

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1246162

 

M.

[neverforget]

1 hour ago, Marilyne said:

I'll just help Pete out of his misery... 

 

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1246162

 

M.

Much obliged Marilynne.👍

 

"What a devoted dog..mans best friend..
In the autumn of 1914, Digger was a stray. Digger knew nothing of the war in Europe, and when troops started arriving at broad meadows, he went to investigate. This dark brown and white Bulldog quickly found a kindred spirit in a young man, just 22-years old, Sgt James Martin of the 1st Division Signal Company.
When the regiment finished their basic training and marched to the troopship, Digger followed. By fair means or foul, Sgt Martin convinced the authorities to take Digger along as their mascot when, on 20 October 1914, the soldiers sailed from Melbourne, Digger went on-board with them.
Digger served in the AIF for 3 ½ years and saw action in gallipoli, and the Western Front in France and Belgium. But Digger was no spectator; he was on the front line. Ever faithful to those he adored and who adored him, he went over the top with the troops – not once, but an astounding 16 times.
Life in the Trenches..
Digger was part of life in the trenches. When the alarm sounded for a mustard gas attack he knew the drill and went to the nearest soldier to have his gas mask fitted. Despite this, at Pozieres he suffered chemical burns – wounds that troubled him in later life.
Undeterred Digger took food to wounded soldiers in no-man’s land, and brought back messages from those capable of writing. In the process he was wounded, gassed, and burnt. He was shot in the jaw, and in the eye. He lost one eye, most of his teeth, and became deaf in one ear…but served on
Early in 1918, Digger’s owner, Sgt Martin, was invalided out of the army and Digger was repatriated with him. The pair returned together to Sydney – a stroke of luck because just one-month later strict quarantine laws were introduced which would have prevented this.
Martin and Digger continued to work together by raising money for returning troops. In recognition for Digger’s war effort, the war office awarded him a silver collar, engraved with insignia usually reserved for returning servicemen.
But Digger had needs of his own. Scars from his burns required expensive medication that Martin could not afford. A picture postcard was issued, put on sale to raise money for his treatment – featuring Digger in his silver collar bedecked with patriotic red, white, and blue ribbons.
Digger’s Passing
Sadly, Digger’s story has a heart-rending end. Digger lived into old age but on Empire Day (May 24, 1919) on hearing celebratory fireworks he took fright. He believed himself under fire once again, panicked, and tried to jump a fence to escape. But he fell back, seriously injuring himself. He managed to crawl to Martin’s bedside (who was in hospital at the time) and died beside his master’s bed. He was posthumously awarded the Blue Cross; considered the animal version of the Victoria Cross." 

More here:

https://sabest.org.au/media/media/australias-great-war-dog-hero-digger-awarded-the-vc-of-animals/

Edited 7 May , 2020 by neverforget

[neverforget]

Who is this???

By all accounts other than his own, he should have been awarded a V.C.

Died on the last day of the war in Europe, V.E. day 1945.

 

 

Edited 9 May , 2020 by neverforget

[Knotty]

You get along back to the ramparts with your mates.

Yes, sir.
Mr. Witt, sir? Be quiet now, will you? There's a good gentleman. You'll upset the lads.
 

Played my dvd on Thursday😁

[neverforget]

8 minutes ago, Knotty said:

You get along back to the ramparts with your mates.

Yes, sir.
Mr. Witt, sir? Be quiet now, will you? There's a good gentleman. You'll upset the lads.
 

Played my dvd on Thursday😁

Got him in one, John, well played. 👍

I've seen his death certificate. It states the causes as 1/ Uraemia, 2/ Enlarged prostate, 3/ Senility.

Colour Sergeant Frank Bourne was born in Balcombe Sussex in 1854 and joined the British Army in 1872. Within four years he had been promoted to Colour Sergeant becoming the the youngest NCo in the entire Army, this earned him the nickname 'The Kid'.

For his bravery during the battle Bourne received the Distinguished Conduct Medal (DCM) for "outstanding coolness and courage" during the battle, with a £10 annuity.  He was offered a commission, but "being an eighth son, and the family exchequer ... empty", he declined it.

After Rorke's Drift, Frank Bourne served in British India and Burma, being promoted to Quartermaster-Sergeant in 1884. He was commissioned in 1890. In 1893 he was appointed adjutant of the School of Musketry at Hythe, Kent, retiring from the army in 1907. During World War I, he rejoined and served as adjutant of the School of Musketry in Dublin. During this time he was responsible for training over 10,000 British and Irish sharpshooters.  At the end of the war, he was given the honorary rank of lieutenant colonel and appointed OBE.

Bourne lived in retirement at 16 King's Hall Road, Beckenham, Kent. He was the last surviving defender from Rorke's Drift, dying on VE Day (8 May 1945), at the age of 91. Bourne was buried in Beckenham Crematorium and Cemetery.

[sassenach]

20 minutes ago, Knotty said:

You get along back to the ramparts with your mates.

Yes, sir.
Mr. Witt, sir? Be quiet now, will you? There's a good gentleman. You'll upset the lads.
 

Played my dvd on Thursday😁

It's a miracle. ..

[neverforget]

1 minute ago, sassenach said:

It's a miracle. ..

If it's a miracle Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry, point 4-5 caliber miracle. Bourne: And a bayonet sir, with some guts behind.

[sassenach]

I'm sure you chaps know this already, but Bourne gave an interview to The Listener magazine in 1936, transcripts of which can be found online, with his words spoken by an actor.

Is there any particular reason why he was not recommended for a VC, I wonder?

 

[neverforget]

1 minute ago, sassenach said:

I'm sure you chaps know this already, but Bourne gave an interview to The Listener magazine in 1936, transcripts of which can be found online, with his words spoken by an actor.

Is there any particular reason why he was not recommended for a VC, I wonder?

 

One theory I've seen is that he was offered one but declined it in favour of a promotion. That makes no sense at all to me though; I wouldn't give that theory any mileage whatsoever. 

[sassenach]

I wonder if he ever had a chance to recall the events of that momentous day with Smith-Dorrien in later years. 

[neverforget]

Certainly did well to get out of that little scrape at Isandlwana.

[sassenach]

S-D's account of it said that he "had lots of marvellous escapes." That's one way of putting it I suppose. 

[Ron Clifton]

3 hours ago, sassenach said:

I'm sure you chaps know this already, but Bourne gave an interview to The Listener magazine in 1936, transcripts of which can be found online, with his words spoken by an actor.

Is there any particular reason why he was not recommended for a VC, I wonder?

 

The story of the Rorke's Drift VCs is a convoluted one but in those days it was most often given for rescuing wounded under fire. Given what would have happened to those unable to leave the hospital if the Zulus had captured them, it certainly provides ample justification for the award to the corporal and five privates of the 24th Foot, who were originally the only ones recommended (I said that the story was a convoluted one!) It is quite possible that Frank Bourne was offered one but declined - I wondered when I first saw the film why he had not been awarded one - but we will probably never know.

 

Ron

 

 

[Polar Bear]

14 minutes ago, Ron Clifton said:

The story of the Rorke's Drift VCs is a convoluted one but in those days it was most often given for rescuing wounded under fire. Given what would have happened to those unable to leave the hospital if the Zulus had captured them, it certainly provides ample justification for the award to the corporal and five privates of the 24th Foot, who were originally the only ones recommended (I said that the story was a convoluted one!) It is quite possible that Frank Bourne was offered one but declined - I wondered when I first saw the film why he had not been awarded one - but we will probably never know.

 

Ron

 

 

 

(Emphasis in bold in the quote mine)

 

Absolutuely agree though with a slight twist. In the case I am most familiar with (the VC that married in to my family) and the similarly dated ones that I have looked at what seems to happen is that it goes to the officer (or officers) who led the men doing so. The Rorke's Drift awards seems rather egalitarian for the time (from my researches anyway) or perhaps the first of the new way of doing things for by The Boer War(s) things will have somewhat changed.

 

Now I will bow out for fear of taking this thread off topic.

 

P

[Knotty]

9 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

In the case I am most familiar with (the VC that married in to my family)

Polarbear, don’t leave me(us) in suspense please tell. If you have mentioned it before on the Forum what thread was it under.

 

John

[Polar Bear]

Firstly an apology to all. In regards to my previous post I have to state I have been misinformed. I was told (by people I trusted) that the men that Captain Cafe led that day did not receive the VC and so never looked into it. That was what led me to look at a number of other incidents around the time and then indeed the men almost always didn't (though I don't profess to have looked at every one, merely quite a few). However in this case two (of the various privates/ non officers involved) did receive the award. Again my apologies for I never knew this until I just now looked at his wiki page prior to posting it. (Though (somewhat) in my defence when I first looked at this incident wikipedia as a thing did not exist)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Martin_Cafe

 

Admittedly I think the page is slightly wrong for as I understand it (according to my father) when it says he is buried with his wife, that should be first wife for very, very late in life he married for a second time to a much younger woman. She is who I am related to. It is believed (by family legend - so make of that what you will) that she was his carer... or in some similar role.

 

P

 

It should also be noted that in the gazette of Alexander Thompson VC then Captain Cafe is completely misnamed, again something I only just noticed...

 

[Bows out for a second time so as not to derail the thread]

[Gunner Hall]

Totally appreciate Polar bears discretion about derai!ing the thread but.......

I'm also struck by the numbers of V.C's awarded to those who save lives.  save a few of your mates in the process of slaughtering the enemy ....The lads in the hospital. Johnson Beharry , Bahadur Gurung and my mum's relative, Sgt Ramage  come to mind. 

Edited 14 May , 2020 by Gunner Hall

[neverforget]

Who is this???

Served with the R.F.C. Discharged with S.W.B.

[rolt968]

Is that Oswald Mosley?

RM

[neverforget]

Just now, rolt968 said:

Is that Oswald Mosley?

RM

Not him.

I will add that he was sentenced to death but then reprieved. 

[Knotty]

I can only think of W E Johns, he was in RFC, wounded and shot down. sentenced to death by the Germans for “bombing civilians” & reprieved because of impending Armistice, but I think he carried on in the RAF for several years.

[neverforget]

Not him either I'm afraid. He was sentenced to death in an English civilian court.

Edited 20 May , 2020 by neverforget

[neverforget]

No nearer?

He was convicted of murder, and sentenced to be hanged. Although he was subsequently reprieved, the guilty verdict was never in question. 

[neverforget]

3 minutes ago, sassenach said:

That pin in his collar suggests he might have been American? 

He was an English public schoolboy, and born in Manchester.

However, the collar pin might be a good spot on your part, as it is true that he did spend some time in America, which included him getting married, and also spending 18 months in jail for a completely unrelated offence.