Who is This ? ? ?

[Margaretnolan]

[Knotty]

Bump up

Nobody going to have a go at his identity then?

[Gareth Davies]

Bumped into this chap at Zonnebeke yesterday. He looks strangely familiar.  

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Knotty said:

Bump up

Nobody going to have a go at his identity then?

 

   Nah-  Off to read a book instead:

 

            

[Guest]

  And this  British officer- did not survive the war.

 

You want clues as well?   

Oh,alright:

1)  One of  3 who went the same way during the war

 

2)    

 

 

 

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, Gareth Davies said:

Bumped into this chap at Zonnebeke yesterday. He looks strangely familiar.  

 

 

Keira Knightley?

 

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[Gareth Davies]

Brilliant.

[Guest]

 

   On second thoughts-   a couple of old terriers?

 

[Knotty]

For post # 10353 it is Field Marshal William Gustavus Nicholson, 1st Baron Nicholson,

1) One of 3 FM who died on active duty, Roberts 1914, Kitchener 1916 & Nicholson Sept 1918

2 ) Namesake was manager of Tottenham Hotspur’s who completed the first FA Cup & 1st Div Championship double of the 20thC in 1961.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Nicholson,_1st_Baron_Nicholson

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Knotty said:

For post # 10353 it is Field Marshal William Gustavus Nicholson, 1st Baron Nicholson,

1) One of 3 FM who died on active duty, Roberts 1914, Kitchener 1916 & Nicholson Sept 1918

2 ) Namesake was manager of Tottenham Hotspur’s who completed the first FA Cup & 1st Div Championship double of the 20thC in 1961.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Nicholson,_1st_Baron_Nicholson

 

     Bang on Knotty- Fed up with the footie as well?    I don't mind players I have never heard of but countries?   Nicholson-a highflyer RE and bagman to Lord Roberts. Non-existent during the war.

[Guest]

 

   And this chap?        Served  in the war (Uniform and medals are a bit of a clue).  Wounded.  Later worked  with a well-known former  NCO of a  Northern "Pals" battalion  and an officer of the Royal Field Artillery  His later field of work  described as the most muddled he had ever read by a  former Civil Servant and critic.  He described a day where he met the Queen and ended up at the Reform Club as the best day of his life..   A Companion of Honour and British citizen

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 July , 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

 

And our man held discussions on philosophy with Wittgenstein  while both were officers (same army) in the Great War. Our man served in Italy. He was a colleague-as above- in later years of a man known for serving in a Northern Pals battalion- in this case, a pals battalion of the Manchester Regiment.

 

 

[Stoppage Drill]

Fritz Hayek ?

Worked with RH Tawney at LSE

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Stoppage Drill said:

Fritz Hayek ?

Worked with RH Tawney at LSE

 

     Spot on SD.  Friedrich August v. Hayek.  I was unaware he had been one of the King's Enemies in the Great War until recently. And,yes, a colleague of Harry Tawney at the LSE- Tawney-famously- a platoon sergeant in the 22nd Manchesters-and writer of the classic account of 1st July 1916 "The Attack".

   Their other colleague was Lionel Robbins, the economist whose autobiography has soem unexpected bits about the war.  The man who described Hayek as muddled was,of course, Maynard Keynes.

Although a Companion of Honour, Hayek retained his British citizenship-and,bizarrely, believed he was in line for a baronetcy (Quite obviously the emigres of the 1930s included a fair few old Habsburg monarchists).

Edited 1 July , 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

And this chap?    Served on both Western and Eastern Fronts in the Great War.  Knew his stuff from  A to Z-  his achievements in the Great War were  dwarfed by those in the Second

 

[Ron Clifton]

On 01/07/2018 at 00:24, Knotty said:

1) One of 3 FM who died on active duty, Roberts 1914, Kitchener 1916 & Nicholson Sept 1918

Only the first two of these appear in Officers Died in the Great War. Although technically still on the active list, Nicholson does not appear to have been on any form of active duty when he died at his home in London, and he does not have a CWGC headstone.

 

Ron

[Knotty]

Bu**er, didn’t check to see if he was on duty, naturally assumed he was.

Thanks for pointing that out Ron.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Ron Clifton said:

Only the first two of these appear in Officers Died in the Great War. Although technically still on the active list, Nicholson does not appear to have been on any form of active duty when he died at his home in London, and he does not have a CWGC headstone.

 

Ron

 

     I must apologise to my GWF chums for unintentionally misleading them****. There were, in fact, 4 deceased Field Marshals of the Great War. 3 are on CWGC (inc. the one I missed).  Nicholson should be on CWGC, regardless of whether he served actively. This may be one of the more bizarre IFTC cases.  The basic rule is that FMs never retire.

    The missing man- which suggests that CWGC may be in error is the following-details from CWGC

 

 

*******  [What?  On WIT?  Not possible. Let the b*ggers struggle- their brains obviously get little use anyway. Ed]

 

Field MarshalBROWNLOW, SIR CHARLES HENRY

Died 05/04/1916

Aged 84

General Staff

and 
20th Duke of Cambridge's Own Infantry (Brownlow's Punjabis)

G C B

Of Warfield Hall, Bracknell, Berks. Son of Col. George A. Browlow; husband of the late Georgiana Brownlow (nee King). Commanded 20th (The Duke of Cambridge's Own Punjab) Bengal Infantry, 1857-72 (Regiment later retitled 20th Duke of Cambridge's Own Infantry (Brownlow's Punjabis) - Hon. Col. from 1904). A.D.C. to H.M. Queen Victoria, 1869-81. Assistant Military Secretary for Indian Affairs at Horse Guards, 1879-89.

Edited 2 July , 2018 by Guest

[Knotty]

18 hours ago, voltaire60 said:

And this chap? 

 

So far I have come to the conclusion that he is a German captain.......that’s it so far, not bad for nigh on 20 hours of dabbling about.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Knotty said:

 

So far I have come to the conclusion that he is a German captain.......that’s it so far, not bad for nigh on 20 hours of dabbling about.

 

    Correctamento.  This man's children all became British citizens.  The pic. is snipped from his marriage pic. of 1917.  He was married more than once -and the story of the fate of his first wife is both tragic-and a clue.  (No, not Dr. Crippen).  And NOT a full time career officer-nor,indeed, despite his wish to be pictured in uniform , not even a full-time German officer of the Great War.

    If he had done what he did in the Second World War, his life would have ended (a la Moriarty)  perpendicularly at Nuremburg

 

 

[IPT]

14 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

 Correctamento. 

 

[Knotty]

1 hour ago, voltaire60 said:

He was married more than once -and the story of the fate of his first wife is both tragic-and a clue.

 

Is that then a picture of Fritz Haber, poison gas developer in WW1 and the discoverer of Zyklon as used infamously in WW2.

I only know of this photo from tinterweb without a bit of searching around

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Knotty said:

 

Is that then a picture of Fritz Haber, poison gas developer in WW1 and the discoverer of Zyklon as used infamously in WW2.

I only know of this photo from tinterweb without a bit of searching around

 

   Fritz Haber it is.  A monumental and dangerous hypocrite. When he fled Germany he expected that common decency and humanity of his fellow man would help him. But that killing his fellow man by the tens of thousands -and defending it as just another form of death took some degree of chutzpah.  Yet another half-bonkers "Captain of Kopenick-not a real officer but liked to dress as one after the Kaiser  made him a Captain. And the A-Z reference- well, another splendid first - his laboratories developed Zyklon A- and we all know what happened with the improved version of that.

    It is very hard to say that a man did not deserve to have existed. But if that was an acceptable proposition, then Haber would certainly be among those chosen.

[Knotty]

Yes the quote just came back to me

“Death is death no matter how it is inflicted”

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Knotty said:

Yes the quote just came back to me

“Death is death no matter how it is inflicted”

 

    Equalled by the late, great  John Betjeman (the son-in-law of a Field Marshall, to boot)-"

       "O why do people waste their breath

         Devising dainty names for death"

 

War is an amoral business - tempered only by shame if by anything at all. The "moral" boundaries that had constrained warfare from the Renaissance onwards  were kicked down by this man. In terms of the history of Germany in the Twentieth century, Haber was well beyond Himmler. Not only did he not bother who he helped to kill, he was also not morally troubled by how nasty those deaths were. A man whose own wife commits suicide in shame has a skin the thickness of a tectonic plate.