Guest Posted 17 December , 2017 Share Posted 17 December , 2017 Yes, Pete- Of course. IMHO, a true man of courage, pictured here after being called up into an engineer regiment in the Spring of 1918. In the later conflict, he must have known that his chances of survival were -at best-slim. Some believe he killed himself while being transported to Germany after betrayal and capture in 1943. But more likely beaten to death by Klaus Barbie on the train,somewhere in the neighbourhood of Metz. Courage of a different magnitude to anything I could ever contemplate. Greatly respected by my French grandfather-in-law, himself a decorated resistant and on the run from the "Boche" for 2 years. And a steer towards a good film of yesteryear-in amongst all the Ch$£"**s slush- the 1969 French film, "Armee des Ombres"-Army of the Shadows,which shows the bleakness of the resistance and the odds against survival. Moulin is represented in fiction in this,as is another great man of courage, Jean Cavailles- (Fictionalised in the film as "Luc Jardie") but of whom it says truly that under interrogation by the Gestapo, he gave out only one name-his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 17 December , 2017 Share Posted 17 December , 2017 It is a fascinating period M. V, and if you look around you when in France the history is still there. The plaques remembering the men killed in the Paris uprising in 1944 are an obvious example but such reminders can be found further afield. I remember traveling along the road from Verdun towards St Mihiel when my mate Charlie spotted a small stone by the side of the road. It was a memorial to two young resistants killed in September 1944 by the retreating Germans. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 December , 2017 Share Posted 17 December , 2017 15 minutes ago, Fattyowls said: It is a fascinating period M. V, and if you look around you when in France the history is still there. The plaques remembering the men killed in the Paris uprising in 1944 are an obvious example but such reminders can be found further afield. I remember traveling along the road from Verdun towards St Mihiel when my mate Charlie spotted a small stone by the side of the road. It was a memorial to two young resistants killed in September 1944 by the retreating Germans. Pete. Exactly- My ex is French (or alien-perhaps both) A curious thing about the French is their lack of hostility to the Boche (as the older generations lovingly call the Germans)-and from an area occupied in both wars-near Sedan-where the Germans unexpectedly dropped in for tea in May 1940-and where the joke is that the Mairie only has one piece of office equipment-an Ansafone with the recorded message "We Surrender" in German. There are little memorials all over the place- My father -in -law was visibly upset when we visited the Vercors and saw the wall against which many of those captured in the 1944 Rising were shot (and at the large cavern where the Maquis field hospital met a similar fate) My wife's great-great aunt was exactly a hundred years older than my elder son-we had him photographed on her knee in 1984 on her hundredth birthday. She died aged 102 in 1986- by that time she had been a war widow nearly 72 years. Her husband was killed on Christmas Day 1914-a fortnight before she gave birth to twins- So Christmas Day 1914 was not all truce,carols and swapping chocolate and fags. Memorialistaion of the Great War is totally different to here in the UK-almost non-existent by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 17 December , 2017 Share Posted 17 December , 2017 Exactly- My ex is French (or alien-perhaps both) A curious thing about the French is their lack of hostility to the Boche (as the older generations lovingly call the Germans)-and from an area occupied in both wars-near Sedan-where the Germans unexpectedly dropped in for tea in May 1940-and where the joke is that the Mairie only has one piece of office equipment-an Ansafone with the recorded message "We Surrender" in German. There are little memorials all over the place- My father -in -law was visibly upset when we visited the Vercors and saw the wall against which many of those captured in the 1944 Rising were shot (and at the large cavern where the Maquis field hospital met a similar fate) My wife's great-great aunt was exactly a hundred years older than my elder son-we had him photographed on her knee in 1984 on her hundredth birthday. She died aged 102 in 1986- by that time she had been a war widow nearly 72 years. Her husband was killed on Christmas Day 1914-a fortnight before she gave birth to twins- So Christmas Day 1914 was not all truce,carols and swapping chocolate and fags. Memorialistaion of the Great War is totally different to here in the UK-almost non-existent by comparison. Just out of interest M. V where was SWMBO's great-great-uncle killed? The reason I ask is I'm working on something about a short stretch of breastworks near Bois Grenier where my man Wilf Toman was killed. On almost the same spot a regular from the Leicesters called Price was killed on Christmas Day 1914 (if I remember correctly); the family recollection is that he was going into no man's land to meet the Germans. Rather than follow a unit I'm following the location and what you could hear as a sentry between October 1914 when the line coalesced here and April 1918 when the line fell during operation Georgette. I'd like a counterpoint to Price's story if that is ok. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 December , 2017 Share Posted 17 December , 2017 Just now, Fattyowls said: Just out of interest M. V where was SWMBO's great-great-uncle killed? The reason I ask is I'm working on something about a short stretch of breastworks near Bois Grenier where my man Wilf Toman was killed. On almost the same spot a regular from the Leicesters called Price was killed on Christmas Day 1914 (if I remember correctly); the family recollection is that he was going into no man's land to meet the Germans. Rather than follow a unit I'm following the location and what you could hear as a sentry between October 1914 when the line coalesced here and April 1918 when the line fell during operation Georgette. I'd like a counterpoint to Price's story if that is ok. Pete. I have absolutely no idea- I can ask my ex from a safe distance (from behind armoured glass and with razor wire in between) and she might answer- His name is on the war memorial at Pouru aux Bois, near Sedan so he should be capable of being traced-but the French family don't seem that bothered about their history. Madam takes after my mother-in-law. Born 1934-she can remember being trailed home by plain-clothes German police (not Milice) in 1943-44 as a schoolgirl in the hope that her father-on the run-would try to make contact. I wouldn't say my mother-in-law was fearsome but I believe the German policeman is still receiving treatment for PTSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 17 December , 2017 Share Posted 17 December , 2017 I have absolutely no idea- I can ask my ex from a safe distance (from behind armoured glass and with razor wire in between) and she might answer- His name is on the war memorial at Pouru aux Bois, near Sedan so he should be capable of being traced-but the French family don't seem that bothered about their history. Madam takes after my mother-in-law. Born 1934-she can remember being trailed home by plain-clothes German police (not Milice) in 1943-44 as a schoolgirl in the hope that her father-on the run-would try to make contact. I wouldn't say my mother-in-law was fearsome but I believe the German policeman is still receiving treatment for PTSD No worries M. V. Do not put yourself in harm's way on my account. I'm interested in the truce from many angles, particularly how the mythology grew up. I know a football researcher who looked at me as though I'd grown a second head* when I told him that there was no unequivocal evidence of the football matches. I've had a hankering for a while to visit Sedan and follow the advance of the Wermacht across northern France to Abbeville in 1940. Brian Horrocks' tanks went the other way to Douai in 1944; I've often wondered if they both put the pedal to the metal as they crossed the old western front which many of them would have remembered. Pete. *or perhaps he was thinking how can he be so intelligent and only have one head. I've often wondered myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 December , 2017 Share Posted 17 December , 2017 10 minutes ago, Fattyowls said: I've had a hankering for a while to visit Sedan and follow the advance of the Wermacht across northern France to Abbeville in 1940. Brian Horrocks' tanks went the other way to Douai in 1944; I've often wondered if they both put the pedal to the metal as they crossed the old western front which many of them would have remembered. Sedan is eminently forgettable-save for its fortress-the largest in western Europe. Traversing the same ground in different directions brings to mind what I was taught about bias- Bob Danvers-Walker commentaries on Pathe newsreels,etc German forces retreat from Point A to Point B somewhere in northern France_ "Enemy Forces were hurled back in disarray" British forces retreat from the same Point A to the same Point B: "British forces retired in good order to prepared positions" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 17 December , 2017 Share Posted 17 December , 2017 Awesome stuff gentlemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 17 December , 2017 Share Posted 17 December , 2017 (edited) This horsey type has something to do with the foregoing badinage.......(photo from a tumblr source). Clue: it is not M. V's ex mother in law. (it seemed like a good idea to return a photo identification thread back to photo identification). Pete. Edited 17 December , 2017 by Fattyowls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 December , 2017 Share Posted 17 December , 2017 24 minutes ago, Fattyowls said: (it seemed like a good idea to return a photo identification thread back to photo identification). Excellente!! A young Erwin Rommel?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 17 December , 2017 Share Posted 17 December , 2017 M. V. - absoutely correct. If you drive out of Arras in the direction of of the Somme battlefield you cross the ground where Rommel is supposed to have organised the 88mm anti aircraft guns which stopped the British counter attack on 21st May 1940. Talking about Sedan made me think of it. I don't think he spent time opposing the British in the area in WW1 being based further south, and later in Italy. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 December , 2017 Share Posted 18 December , 2017 2 hours ago, Fattyowls said: M. V. - absoutely correct. If you drive out of Arras in the direction of of the Somme battlefield you cross the ground where Rommel is supposed to have organised the 88mm anti aircraft guns which stopped the British counter attack on 21st May 1940. Talking about Sedan made me think of it. I don't think he spent time opposing the British in the area in WW1 being based further south, and later in Italy. Pete. Wow!! Bit of a guess- Not seen that particular picture before-and unaware of his actions around Sedan in 1940. By the way, the stuff propounded as History in past years (eg World at War) that the Ardennes is impenetrable forest is just seriously whacko- Did no-one think in 1940 that if there had been no reports of civilian delivery trucks delivering groceries, mattresses, ironmongery,etc,etc,etc, in the decades before the war, then it was highly likely that a tank of similar width might make it as well. Or am I missing something here? Roads have always seemed plenty wide enough to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 18 December , 2017 Share Posted 18 December , 2017 Just trying this one out for size - I hope it's who it's supposed to be ... (definitely not in the uniform he should be wearing, however). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 18 December , 2017 Share Posted 18 December , 2017 8 hours ago, seaJane said: Just trying this one out for size - I hope it's who it's supposed to be ... (definitely not in the uniform he should be wearing, however). Looks a bit like Hess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 18 December , 2017 Share Posted 18 December , 2017 Did no-one think in 1940 that if there had been no reports of civilian delivery trucks delivering groceries, mattresses, ironmongery,etc,etc,etc, in the decades before the war, then it was highly likely that a tank of similar width might make it as well. Or am I missing something here? Roads have always seemed plenty wide enough to me. The French had probably forgotten that, if you are in a tank, keeping to the right-hand side of the road wasn't something you would be overly bothered about! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 December , 2017 Share Posted 18 December , 2017 49 minutes ago, neverforget said: Looks a bit like Hess? Dame Myra? Surely not. OK, agree it looks like dear Rudi. Who could have been a Devonian if his family background had been just a little different..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 18 December , 2017 Share Posted 18 December , 2017 2 hours ago, neverforget said: Looks a bit like Hess? Our local U3A Military History Group concurred this over mince pies this morning😃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 18 December , 2017 Share Posted 18 December , 2017 18 minutes ago, Knotty said: Our local U3A Military History Group concurred this over mince pies this morning😃 What does U3A stand for John? Interesting that in my search engine of choice Rudolf Hess is the second suggestion after the red nosed reindeer namesake. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 18 December , 2017 Share Posted 18 December , 2017 (edited) Sort of on a theme who is this? Photo found via Duck Duck Go search engine on Pininterest. Edited 18 December , 2017 by Fattyowls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 December , 2017 Share Posted 18 December , 2017 7 minutes ago, Fattyowls said: What does U3A stand for John? Interesting that in my search engine of choice Rudolf Hess is the second suggestion after the red nosed reindeer namesake. Pete. Universite Troisieme Age- a French concept of lifelong education- Keep the old b*ggers occupied with some form of education. Personally, still waiting for Y2K whatever that is going to be....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 18 December , 2017 Share Posted 18 December , 2017 19 minutes ago, Fattyowls said: Sort of on a theme who is this? Photo found via Duck Duck Go search engine on Pininterest. After scouring the E.L. for pictures of Hess, I think I can confirm that seaJane's post is a 1920 image of him. Is your chap a young Albert Kesselring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 18 December , 2017 Share Posted 18 December , 2017 Personally, still waiting for Y2K Some sort of jelly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 18 December , 2017 Share Posted 18 December , 2017 52 minutes ago, Fattyowls said: Sort of on a theme who is this? Photo found via Duck Duck Go search engine on Pininterest. Is this Guderian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 18 December , 2017 Share Posted 18 December , 2017 Apologies for late arrival, gentlemen, there has been much cataloguing. Yes, it's Hess. sJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 18 December , 2017 Share Posted 18 December , 2017 While we await Pete's confimation (or not), who is this ? ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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