Knotty Posted 4 December , 2017 Share Posted 4 December , 2017 7 hours ago, voltaire60 said: The other brother - MC- is buried in Greenburgh Cemetery, New York. If its who I think it is I thought he was buried at Ferncliff Cemetery, New York or am I making an elementary mistake? 9 hours ago, Fattyowls said: Another famous Liverpool name, but born a hemisphere away from the city of their ancestors. But I deduced he served with the Liverpool Scottish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 4 December , 2017 Share Posted 4 December , 2017 22 minutes ago, Knotty said: If its who I think it is I thought he was buried at Ferncliff Cemetery, New York or am I making an elementary mistake? No you are correct-You have eliminated the impossible - its is Ferncliff-in Greenburgh, New York. Unlike his assumed mortal enemy, his exit from this world was, however, assuredly horizontal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 4 December , 2017 Share Posted 4 December , 2017 Nice one IPT and thanks for that information; all I need now is the story. And well spotted all; I had a series of fiendish clues lined up, one of which was a comparison with a recent photo on the forum of a man in a kilt. I was also going to mention some of the elder brother's co-workers and their various scars and wounds. So just the name of the sister is outstanding ........ Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 4 December , 2017 Share Posted 4 December , 2017 Gawd, I must be distinctly off form today. Everyone else seems to have sussed it but I'm still in the dark despite all the cryptic answers. The smart money's not on me to provide the identity of the sister at this rate.😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 4 December , 2017 Share Posted 4 December , 2017 (edited) I'm like that most of the time matey, don't give yourself too much of a hard time. The elder boy worked on a project with a group of other men many of whom had similar WW1 experiences to him. The lead in the project was a man who would be notable for not participating in WW2 and was unfairly pilloried at the time. Pete. Edited 4 December , 2017 by Fattyowls missing words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 4 December , 2017 Share Posted 4 December , 2017 Hi Pete The sister is a follower who would consume a staple oriental dish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 4 December , 2017 Share Posted 4 December , 2017 4 minutes ago, Knotty said: Hi Pete The sister is a follower who would consume a staple oriental dish John, I think you are correct, but cracking the follower bit is beyond what remains of my brain. However searching the extensive library for that part of the name took me to the surname of a French actress who I was madly in love with after seeing 'Manon des Sources'. I'd quite forgotten how beautiful she was, so for that I am extraordinarily grateful. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 4 December , 2017 Share Posted 4 December , 2017 Pete A follower is just a simple B John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 5 December , 2017 Share Posted 5 December , 2017 Assuming that Pete now has all his boxes ticked, who is this chap??? He had two sons who were also participants; one who was killed before he was, and another who was present at the event of his (the father's) death, which led to both parties being decorated. He also holds two unique distinctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 5 December , 2017 Share Posted 5 December , 2017 All boxes well ticked NF; excellent responses from all by the way, and particular thanks to IPT for the cemetery id. The photograph is Basil, John and Beatrice Rathbone, and is taken from basirathbone.net. It has an informality that I really like, and contrasts with so many posed family photos of the period (my own included). The Rathbone family had a history of philanthropy in Liverpool; apart from the children's great grandfather who supported the building of public wash houses after a particularly deadly cholera outbreak in the city's slums their first cousin (once removed) was Eleanor Rathbone, the great social reformer. John would be killed in 1918 serving with the Dorsetshires and Basil would become intelligence officer of the 2nd Liverpool Scottish. His colourful recollections of this time make 'Goodbye to All That' by Graves look like an fastidious exercise in veracity. I look at the photo and wonder if the family could bear to look at it after the war; but then that would be true of so many family photographs. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 5 December , 2017 Share Posted 5 December , 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Fattyowls said: All boxes well ticked NF; excellent responses from all by the way, and particular thanks to IPT for the cemetery id. The photograph is Basil, John and Beatrice Rathbone, and is taken from basirathbone.net. It has an informality that I really like, and contrasts with so many posed family photos of the period (my own included). The Rathbone family had a history of philanthropy in Liverpool; apart from the children's great grandfather who supported the building of public wash houses after a particularly deadly cholera outbreak in the city's slums their first cousin (once removed) was Eleanor Rathbone, the great social reformer. John would be killed in 1918 serving with the Dorsetshires and Basil would become intelligence officer of the 2nd Liverpool Scottish. His colourful recollections of this time make 'Goodbye to All That' by Graves look like an fastidious exercise in veracity. I look at the photo and wonder if the family could bear to look at it after the war; but then that would be true of so many family photographs. Pete. Thanks for that Pete. I have to confess that I was apparently the only person on the forum who didn't realise it was the Rathbones. You mention his recollections. Could you enlighten me as to where might they be available for me to peruse? I would be very keen to do so. As an aside, during my search for your Liverpool Scottish related family, I inevitably came across Chavasse, but also discovered Sergeant Albert Baybut, Chavasse's Medical Orderly, who is technically the most highly decorated soldier in the history of Liverpool Scottish due to Chavasse's parent unit actually being the Royal Army Medical Corps. I determined to make him my next W.I.T. but could find no pictures of him. Known as "The Doctor's Shadow", history has certainly confined him to reside therein. Edited 5 December , 2017 by neverforget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 5 December , 2017 Share Posted 5 December , 2017 1 hour ago, neverforget said: Thanks for that Pete. I have to confess that I was apparently the only person on the forum who didn't realise it was the Rathbones. You mention his recollections. Could you enlighten me as to where might they be available for me to peruse? I would be very keen to do so. As an aside, during my search for your Liverpool Scottish related family, I inevitably came across Chavasse, but also discovered Sergeant Albert Baybut, Chavasse's Medical Orderly, who is technically the most highly decorated soldier in the history of Liverpool Scottish due to Chavasse's parent unit actually being the Royal Army Medical Corps. I determined to make him my next W.I.T. but could find no pictures of him. Known as "The Doctor's Shadow", history has certainly confined him to reside therein. Another item of interest that might be lurking out there are the memoirs of Basil Rathbone's foil- Nigel Bruce. Bruce comes across as a befuddled idiot Dr. Watson in the Rathbone Holmes films but he was anything but. He was a wartime officer of the Somerset Light Infantry and HAC. And he wrote his memoirs, sometime around 1947, which have remained unpublished since his death in 1953. A few bits have appeared in the Sherlock Holmes newsletter but only-no great guess here- on Holmes. Whether they contain anything on his wartime service is open to question but is likely - Nigel Bruce was anything but the befuddled fool-he was badly wounded by 11 bullets and in a wheelchair for a year and more. 2 hours ago, neverforget said: Alaistair Darling? I'll get my coat...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 5 December , 2017 Share Posted 5 December , 2017 So many priceless tales left untold I'm sure, or at least waiting to be unearthed. On Baybut; many of his comrades were quite indignant about him not receiving a V.C. along with his more illustrious colleague, wondering "how someone at one end of the stretcher could get one when the bloke at the other end of it did not." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 5 December , 2017 Share Posted 5 December , 2017 #7651: The father who was killed saved hundreds of horses from certain death due to his action, and the son who survived him disappeared without trace in 1938. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 5 December , 2017 Share Posted 5 December , 2017 2 hours ago, neverforget said: saved hundreds of horses from certain death due to his action, Ok NF strugggling, so need to establish how they were involved in saving horses, I have been assuming it was nothing to do with animal welfare issues, and also spotted he looks a bit elderly. So is it any of these options? A major fire (air raid or accident at barracks) - father & son both firefighters? A shipwreck ( Channel or Gallipoli on way from Australia or similar)- crew members? or possibly a non-railway accident (potential derailment) - driver and signalman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 5 December , 2017 Share Posted 5 December , 2017 The incident occured at sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 5 December , 2017 Share Posted 5 December , 2017 Thanks I’ll keep digging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 5 December , 2017 Share Posted 5 December , 2017 That's my theory gone up in smoke, so just to return to the cute picture of the Rathbones I looked up 'The Adventures of Robin Hood' for a clue and was amazed at how many of the British cast members had WW1 service. I was also reminded of what a bounder Flynn was (although he did try to enlist he had various viral issues, of which malaria was the least scandalous shall we say). We've featured much of the cast on WiT? over the years (and it is years now). It also reminded me that Olivia de Haviland was a fabulously beautiful woman and that was her real name. I found out that she was born on the 1st July 1916, and is still with us. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 5 December , 2017 Share Posted 5 December , 2017 9 minutes ago, Fattyowls said: That's my theory gone up in smoke, so just to return to the cute picture of the Rathbones I looked up 'The Adventures of Robin Hood' for a clue and was amazed at how many of the British cast members had WW1 service. I was also reminded of what a bounder Flynn was (although he did try to enlist he had various viral issues, of which malaria was the least scandalous shall we say). We've featured much of the cast on WiT? over the years (and it is years now). It also reminded me that Olivia de Haviland was a fabulously beautiful woman and that was her real name. I found out that she was born on the 1st July 1916, and is still with us. Pete. Never too late to let her know your feelings for her then mate 💕 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 5 December , 2017 Share Posted 5 December , 2017 31 minutes ago, Fattyowls said: It also reminded me that Olivia de Haviland was a fabulously beautiful woman and that was her real name. I found out that she was born on the 1st July 1916, and is still with us. And Japanese by birth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 5 December , 2017 Share Posted 5 December , 2017 There is a "collective" memorial to my chap at Tower Hill, and an individual memorial dedicated to him at Islington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 5 December , 2017 Share Posted 5 December , 2017 Islington has given it away to me, the memorial is to Frederick Daniel Parslow VC, of the Mercantile Marine, posthumously awarded in 1919 after being made a lieutenant in the RNR following his heroic actions as a civilian Captain in 1915 at the age of 59. He became the first VC awarded to the Mercantile Marine and the oldest recipient in WW1. His action kept HM Horse Transport “Anglo-Californian” out of the clutches of the German submarine U39, some 100 miles off the Irish coastline. For nearly 2 hours he kept them at bay, but it was an unequal fight as the ship had no armaments, he was abandoning ship when RN destroyers who had picked up an S O S sent earlier told him to hang in there as they were on there way. Stopping the abandon ship routine the Germans recommenced firing again and this time he was killed by shell fire, whereupon his son ,also Frederick, took over command and kept dodging the submarine, until the RN arrived. He to was decorated for the action, but not the VC. Better descriptions can be found here, with links to American paper reports and citation in the London Gazette http://www.searlecanada.org/hemy/thomashemydata34.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 5 December , 2017 Share Posted 5 December , 2017 Fully correct on all counts John. Well done. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Daniel_Parslow No need for me elaborate, but here's a link to his sons, one of whom was awarded the D.S.C. for his part in the action which led to his father's demise. http://www.vconline.org.uk/frederick-d-parslow-vc/4587821469 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 6 December , 2017 Share Posted 6 December , 2017 Another with a unique double-distinction Connections to London, and to Rugby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 6 December , 2017 Share Posted 6 December , 2017 Lieutenant Frank de Pass VC, 34th Poona Horse. In the Great War he was both the first Jewish officer and the first Indian Army officer to win the Victoria Cross. He was born in Kensington and went to Rugby School. It's the kind of photo that somehow sticks in your mind once you have seen it. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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