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27th Battalion (Tyneside Irish) Northumberland Fusiliers


RJM7
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Hello everyone -

I'm looking for the embarkation roll for this battalion - can anyone point me in its direction? I'm especially interested in embarkation logs for any reinforcements as I'm looking for a soldier with a reg. number of around 40000.

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RJM7

Welcome to the forum.

I'm not sure embarkation rolls survive for British battalions. Dates of entry into theatre should be available on medal index cards. If it's missing from an MIC you can look at them for service numbers either side of a specific number. MICs can be looked up on the ancestry website and they offer a free trial if it's your first time on that website.

A gentleman on the forum called 'Tyneside Chinaman' has written a book on the Tyneside Irish Brigade and the appendices had extensive lists of personnel who served with it. Getting a look would be use - however he was answering posts earlier this evening so I'm sure he'll be along any minute.

Alternatively please provide the number rank and name of the man in question to enable more focussed assistance.

Kind regards

Colin

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Hi,

If you give me the name and number I will look him up, the rolls in the book won't help as the Tyneside Irish numbers were prefixed with the battalion number 24/, 25, 26, 27 or 30/. Men numbered 40000 + were reinforcements that joined after September 1916 so an embarkation roll won't help either. The 40000 men came from many different regiments DLI, West Yorks, DWR and Northern Cyclists.

regards

John

Colin thanks for describing me as a "gentleman".

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Thanks -

George William Webb

40377

I'm aware he died of wounds in April 1917, but I'm curious as to what regiment he came from if any and anything else I can find out really!

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Hi,

Strange his MIC is on the NA site but not on ancestry. If I had that I would know a bit more.

He was from Newcastle but at the moment that's all I can add.

You need to speak to Graham Stewart who knows a lot more than me about the NF.

regards

John

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I eventually found his MIC on Ancestry the other day - whoever entered it mis-spelled his name Peirge W Webb . I know he was in 27th battalion.

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Hi,

Found the MIC unfortunately I do not have that MR book so can't help.

You need WO329/715 page 9369 from the National Archives.

regards

John

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Thanks for the quick response! Would that be a case of going there in person or can they send it over? What would it usually show?

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Hi,

You have to go in person or get a researcher to do it for you.

The roll lists the battalions the man served with, as no other regiment is shown I expect he only served with the 27th Battalion, but that's just speculation.

regards

John

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Thanks - I found the discharge certificate of soldier a few numbers on from him and it shows an enlistment date of May 1916 - would this tally with your knowledge of the 40000+ numbers? A couple of months training then to France around August?

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Just back from holiday and noticed this one. However the man numbered 40377 isn't actually George William Webb, but is infact 40377 Pte Robert William Donnison, who served with the 16th Bn and all in this particular 403** number series are alphabetical/numerical.

The correct number is infact 43077 Pte George William Webb, of 19 Hill St, Newcastle, who again served with the 16th Bn, prior to his transfer to the 27th with whom he d.o.w.

Determining a date of enlistment in this series is virtually impossible as many were transferred in from the Royal Irish Rifles

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Great - thanks for the help! How do you know he served with the 16th before joining the Tyneside Irish?

Because the information is contained on his Medal Roll Sheet - i.e. the 'primary' unit is always listed first.

This series of 43*** numbers are a mixed bag of N.F. Bns, nor are they listed alphabetical/numerical, with quite a few of them coming from Middlesbrough.

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Hmm...I think we're looking at different things...I've just got a medal index card and there's no mention of battalion whatsoever - did you find a more detailed version?

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Hmm...I think we're looking at different things...I've just got a medal index card and there's no mention of battalion whatsoever - did you find a more detailed version?

Medal Index Cards do not contain the detailed information, just the basics - Medal Roll Books and the Medal Roll Sheets do contain details of previous units and Battalions served in. When researching you have to look at it all, i.e. MIC's; Medal Roll Books and Silver War Badge Lists and other aids, such as Red Cross Enquiry Lists; Absent Voters Lists; SDGW; CWGC and so on.

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Thanks Graham. I had a search for those more detailed documents online but to no avail. I thought it would require a trip to the archives. How did you manage to find roll books and sheets?

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Thanks Graham. I had a search for those more detailed documents online but to no avail. I thought it would require a trip to the archives. How did you manage to find roll books and sheets?

Been doing it for about twenty years or more and had most of the Rolls etc copied or own material and as a result my Database of just Northumberlands has somewhere in the region 90,000 plus records of individuals who served during WWI.

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Well it's certainly proved helpful! The only thing that confuses me is he doesn't appear on the embarkation roll or the Thiepval roll for the 16th battalion. And why isn't there a record of his number when he served in the 16th? They all seemed to start 16/...

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That's because he was a reinforcement and did not join until after July 1916,

Men numbered 43.... did not arrive until after August 1916 at the earliest.

regards

John

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  • 2 months later...

Hi sorry to jump into this thread, My greatgrandad was 27/1354 Thomas Williams, I assume he was 27th from the prefix, I have both his MIC and Service record. I have a query as to when he was wounded, the first entry on his record indicates he was in hospital on 6/7/16, I assume it was from the opening day of the somme patched up but cant work out what happened on 25/10/17, can anyone tell me more detail on how and when? I have attached the wound details,

post-88905-0-55470700-1412594088_thumb.j

post-88905-0-50573900-1412594154_thumb.j

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Hi,

As best as I can make it out on my iPhone his record was updated 25.10.1917 to the effect he had been wounded 4 or 14.10.1917 and had been admitted to one of the Canadian Hospitals at Etaples on either 7 or 17.10.1917.

He is mentioned in the nominal roll of John Sheen's excellent TI book in D Co 4th TI with mentions of wounds in the Regimental Magazine Sept 1916 & April 1918 (some months after the actual events). He was a L/Cpl and in Bath War Hospital 11th July 1916. His home village shown as Netton Downs.

I'm sure John or Graham Stewart will be along shortly if there is any more to add.

Regards

Steve Y

PS

My avatar is a great uncle who also served 4th TI.

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Definately a wounding on the 14th October 1917, when the 24/27th Bn suffered a large number of casualties in the Boesinghe/Poelcapelle area from the 12th October onwards. The 24th Battalion had been amalgamated with the 27th Bn on the 10th August 1917.

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Ties in nicely, his home town was Hetton Downs, There is a story in our family that he joined up with his pals after a footbal match in Sunderland and he was blown out of the trench that killed his mates that he had joined up with, how much of that is true is hard to say, I know nothing of his stint in the RASC, M-396271 but I'm guessing that was after he was wounded for the second time and was sent second line to supply the troops.

post-88905-0-34374600-1412754201_thumb.j

post-88905-0-62847100-1412754391_thumb.j

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After his stint in the RASC he then transferred to the RAFC/RAF guarding sea planes at Stromness? I assume thats Scarpa Flow. I cant make out if its RAFC or RAF cap badge but his 2 wound stripes are visible on his arm.

post-88905-0-34840600-1412754723_thumb.j

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Just had a thought, if he was in the 4th tyneside Irish would he not have had an irish capbadge in the above picture instead of the fusilier one?

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