burial at sea of soldiers on hospital ships?

[CGM]

I can't think a hospital ship would give up precious medical supplies storage space to embalming fluid and apparatus.

Or set aside space for the storage of embalmed bodies, which would obviously be at the expense of space for treatment of the living or space for food and supplies.

Particularly as there was a well-established history of burial at sea.

CGM

[roytoner]

thanks all for the replies. Yes, it was Tom Kempster from the Oldham area. His medal card says KIA, Soldiers that Died says 'At Sea' & 'Died of Wounds'. I've now found from the Oldham Chron of the time that he appeared on a casualty list of July 31st as 'wounded'. So it would seem...he was badly injured and then on the journey back to Malta/Lemnos/England/wherever he died and they buried him overboard.

I was thinking originally of a hospital ship moored at Gallipoli - they would presumably have had the bodies buried?

[healdav]

Burial at sea from warships was still RN practice in 1967 and probably later, so not a WW1 phenomenon.

Still the practice today. In submarines they even have arrangements to shoot bodies from a torpedo tube.

It isn't practical to keep coffins on a ship - space, and how many, and what do you do if you run out?

[centurion]

I can't think a hospital ship would give up precious medical supplies storage space to embalming fluid and apparatus.

Or set aside space for the storage of embalmed bodies, which would obviously be at the expense of space for treatment of the living or space for food and supplies.

Particularly as there was a well-established history of burial at sea.

CGM

I didn't say burial at sea wasn't the norm - merely pointing out that we shouldn't be too dogmatic about bodies never being preserved.

[Sue Light]

I was thinking originally of a hospital ship moored at Gallipoli - they would presumably have had the bodies buried?

No - the hospital ships were moored off-shore, about a mile or so, and the casualties ferried out to the ship on lighters. Once a man had reached the hospital ship he was 'at sea' and even if a man died before the ship got underway, which could be two or three days, he would be buried at sea. I've just been reading an account where a chaplain went out in a tug with bodies taken from a moored ship to conduct the burial.

Sue

[roytoner]

No - the hospital ships were moored off-shore, about a mile or so, and the casualties ferried out to the ship on lighters. Once a man had reached the hospital ship he was 'at sea' and even if a man died before the ship got underway, which could be two or three days, he would be buried at sea. I've just been reading an account where a chaplain went out in a tug with bodies taken from a moored ship to conduct the burial.

Sue

thanks Sue

[Phil Wood]

I have researched a chap who died of influenza on the way home from India after the war - he was buried at sea.

[alantwo]

I have attached a few examples of how a death or burial at sea may be recorded from the Admissions and Discharge Books of HMHS Assaye. Some merely state the date and time of death and others give precise details of Latitude and Longitude of the burial at sea. The burial at Anzac is interesting as it appears the Australians Light Horse casualty was admitted on board on the 4th October dying the same day, yet it appears he was returned to Anzac on the 5th for burial. There are one or two similar examples of this including at Suvla. It looks as though if the ship was within a day of docking at say Malta the deceased would be retained on board and disembarked for burial, any longer and the body was buried at sea.

Regards

Alan

[horatio2]

A number of factors would determine that a body would not be buried at sea: how many hours before entering harbour; if the threat conditions would not allow a ship to stop for a burial; and if the position of the ship was unsuitable (e..g. strong tidal currents, shallow depth of water).

[healdav]

I have come across a case where in WW2 about 40 sailors were killed on shore on Gibraltar in an explosion, but were taken to sea to be buried.

By the way, tradition had it that the man was wrapped in his hammock for burial and the body weighted with shot. Today, shells are too valuable so old iron of some sort is used. As they don't have hammocks, they have to use canvas.

And the chaplain would not lift the chute for the body to go into the water, a couple of hefty sailors would be detailed for that as the chaplain would be reading the burial service that says "until the sea shall give up her dead...."

In principle, there would be as many chutes as there were bodies to be buried, but if the quarter deck was crowded, there might be more than one on each chute, if necessary.

The only instance I have come across where a body was not buried at sea was when a man died a day out from Gibraltar, and the body was brought in so that his wife and family could be at the funeral. Even here, I seem to remember that they embarked on the ship and the man was buried at sea, anyway.

[Darlaston Remembered]

I am researching the men on Darlaston War Memorial and building a, modest, site. I recently listed a chap 'died at sea' and named on Helles Memorial.

In the 1970's I used to holiday at Portsmouth for two weeks of ship-spotting, it was not unusual to see one of the black and gold harbour service launches leave harbour with a flag-covered coffin, Padre and couple of mourners. I believe it went out somewhere the Nab Tower. Though, so far as I know, these were ex-matelots rather than serving men.

Does this still go on?

[seaJane]

I'll ask around - next week when I'm back in the area.