Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

RussT

Territorial Force War Medal - Eligibility

Recommended Posts

ss002d6252

If a man had the Territorial Force Efficiency Medal could he also be eligible for the Territorial Force War Medal?

As fas I'm aware a man could have both as they were for different reasons - the TFWM for war time services whereas the TFEM was the T.F. long service medal.

Craig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Andrew Upton

If a man had the Territorial Force Efficiency Medal could he also be eligible for the Territorial Force War Medal? I recall being told by a medal dealer that the former precluded the latter, but I may have been misinformed or misunderstood.

As fas I'm aware a man could have both as they were for different reasons - the TFWM for war time services whereas the TFEM was the T.F. long service medal.

The dealer was certainly wrong, as the answer is very much that a man could have both - below are just a few examples of medal groups with both from a quick search of the web:

http://www.mullocksauctions.co.uk/lot-52032-ww1_shropshire_yeo_medal_group_to_consist_of.html

http://britisharmymedals.blogspot.co.uk/2009_06_01_archive.html

http://www.jcollinsmedals.co.uk/pages/firstworldwarmedals.shtml

http://www.cultmancollectables.com/products/ww1-medal-pair-territorial-force-war-medal-india-general-service-medal-bar-waziristan-1919-

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/132964706/Territorial_Force_and_Efficiency_medal_group.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
patrick Eggs

Hello Craig

Thanks for your commennt on the paper work , I think is Army Form E.624, copy att.this was signed by my Dad and the West Kent Yeomanry, H.Q. stamp is dated 2-Oct.1914.

This is part of his army papers that were held by the MOD in Glasgow as he was in the reserve until 1925.

It seems to me that so many men were taken from various units to make up the Tank Corps, that records were sent back to thier old units , as in his case west Kent Yeomany to MGC then Heavy Branch into the Tanks,

the paper work track is all over the place ,but the Army are very good at records judging by his file.

And in particular the MGC, I think they wanted to foreget all about them, as the records a very few, but a good group of people are trying to gather as many details as possible, any way thanks for your thoughts.

Crimson Rambler.

post-89740-0-75873800-1406132610_thumb.j

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

The dealer was certainly wrong, as the answer is very much that a man could have both - below are just a few examples of medal groups with both from a quick search of the web:

Thanks. I think it more probable my faulty memory rather than the dealer who is very reputable.. Thanks for the clarification. The 1915 Star clearly the medal that made the difference rather than the TFEM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ss002d6252
Thanks for your commennt on the paper work , I think is Army Form E.624, copy att.this was signed by my Dad and the West Kent Yeomanry, H.Q. stamp is dated 2-Oct.1914.

It may be that he didn't sign up or agree to the ISO before 30 Sep 1914.

Craig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MotherMave

Can anyone help with this query please, I am wondering what medal the above was. Any help would be gratefully received.

British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920 about Leonard Carter

Name: Leonard Carter

Regiment or Corps: The Royal Welsh (Welch) Fusiliers

Regimental Number: 240472

Victory & British Medals - Roll No. J/2/102B37, Page No. 12045

T.F.W.M. - Roll No. RWF/TFM, Page No. 11

Nothing else written on the card.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
joseph

Hi,

Territorial Force War Medal.

The Territorial Force War Medal 1914-1919 was awarded to members of the Territorial Force only. To qualify, the recipient had to have been a member of the Territorial Force on or prior to 30 September 1914, and to have served in an operational theatre outside of the United Kingdom between 5 August 1914 and 11 November 1918.

Not awarded if awarded a Star.

Regards Charles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
simon2

I also think that the individual had to have been serving for at least 4 years in the TF prior to the war.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MotherMave

Thank you both, Charles and Sinon2, although I have been researching the men and boys on my local WW1 War Memorials for 3 years, I have never seen it before, so there is something else I have learned today, thank you so much. Mavis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
themonsstar

From the medal roll for the RWF. TFWM. WO329/3262 Suff R-RWF.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MotherMave

Thank you so much for that, where did you find it. It helps tell his story. - Thanks again, Mavis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sepoy

This is what the reverse looks like

Sepoy

post-55476-0-76335200-1407543153_thumb.j

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MotherMave

Thank you everyone, too many replies to name everyone, but it certainly started a discussion. This is such a great forum, so many learned people. Thanks again, Mavis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
exuser1

I was at Tyne Cot on Tuesday and a contingent from Coventry old comrades were laying wreaths ,the veteran in charge was sporting his own medals and on his right side his relatives this group was made up of MM 1914 star and bar trio and the TFWM ,I wanted to talk to the lad to see the details of the group but time was dragging on and had to move on ,could the group have been correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ss002d6252

I was at Tyne Cot on Tuesday and a contingent from Coventry old comrades were laying wreaths ,the veteran in charge was sporting his own medals and on his right side his relatives this group was made up of MM 1914 star and bar trio and the TFWM ,I wanted to talk to the lad to see the details of the group but time was dragging on and had to move on ,could the group have been correct?

If he was an early Territorial in France then the 14 star etc can be correct. The TFWM was a medal for those T.F.men who couldn't also qualify for a star (amongst other criteria).

Craig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest TrevNic

I feel my grandfather Alfred Crocker of the 4th Gordons was very unfortunate. He joined the Territorials when they were still the Volunteers in 1906. He was at annual camp with the battalion in July 1914 when they were recalled just before war broke out. I have a photo of him with his company arriving back at the railway station in Aberdeen. According to his medal card he didn't qualify for the 1914/15 Star - I don't know why. Presumably he remained behind training recruits? He did eventually serve in France and Flanders and was wounded 3 times. He was attached to the 2nd Seaforth for the last 2 years of the war. Presumably the TFWM was instituted for people like him. However the Gordons never signed the Imperial Declaration and therefore he wasn't entitled to it. He only received the War Medal and Victory Medal. He was later awarded both Efficiency Medals and served in France in 1940, gaining the 39/45 Star and War Medal.

How unlucky was he?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ss002d6252

W

I feel my grandfather Alfred Crocker of the 4th Gordons was very unfortunate. He joined the Territorials when they were still the Volunteers in 1906. He was at annual camp with the battalion in July 1914 when they were recalled just before war broke out. I have a photo of him with his company arriving back at the railway station in Aberdeen. According to his medal card he didn't qualify for the 1914/15 Star - I don't know why. Presumably he remained behind training recruits? He did eventually serve in France and Flanders and was wounded 3 times. He was attached to the 2nd Seaforth for the last 2 years of the war. Presumably the TFWM was instituted for people like him. However the Gordons never signed the Imperial Declaration and therefore he wasn't entitled to it. He only received the War Medal and Victory Medal. He was later awarded both Efficiency Medals and served in France in 1940, gaining the 39/45 Star and War Medal.
How unlucky was he?

Which battalion was he with ?

Craig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ss002d6252
According to his medal card he didn't qualify for the 1914/15 Star - I don't know why. Presumably he remained behind training recruits?

Possibly or as a (relatively) older soldier it was though he'd be better off staying at home. Had he actually signed the ISO to consent to overseas service ?

Presumably the TFWM was instituted for people like him. However the Gordons never signed the Imperial Declaration and therefore he wasn't entitled to it.

It was down to personal choice whether a man signed the ISO for overseas service - just because it was signed though didn't guarantee he would see overseas service. For him not to get the TFWM he would have had to personally decide not to sign the ISO.

Craig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BullerTurner
On 22/07/2014 at 20:27, Guest said:

If a man had the Territorial Force Efficiency Medal could he also be eligible for the Territorial Force War Medal? I recall being told by a medal dealer that the former precluded the latter, but I may have been misinformed or misunderstood. Man in avatar had the former as well as the 1914-15 Star (among others) and I see 1914-15 Star precluded the TF medal. Still wondering about the TFEM, but maybe I misunderstood the advice....


No, they were NOT exclusive.  One should not believe everything dealers tell you about medals - or about the regulations behind them! 😉

 

And at which point I should observe that the four years’ previous service needed to be four years’ “efficient service”.  Which might explain the confusion between four years/four camps?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ken Lees
23 hours ago, BullerTurner said:


No, they were NOT exclusive.  One should not believe everything dealers tell you about medals - or about the regulations behind them! 😉

 

And at which point I should observe that the four years’ previous service needed to be four years’ “efficient service”.  Which might explain the confusion between four years/four camps?

Over five years late with that reply! I wondered how such an old thread had been revived. I read the whole thing, hoping there would be something new added. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...