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gwentpal

South Wales Borderers 2nd, 10th, 11th Diaries

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gwentpal

Now got the War Diaries for the South Wales Borderers 10th (1st Gwent) and 11th (2nd Gwent) Battalions to go with the 2nd Battalions Diary.

Happy to do look ups for if anyone wants info.

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daggers

Hello and thanks for the offer. May I step in first and ask if there is anything in 11th Battalion diary about 37843 Pte Angus Crawford who died of wounds on 21 Sept 1917 at 54 CCS, Merville and was buried at Estaires Communal Cemetery. Any background information would be welcome, but we do not know when he was wounded.

Daggers

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gwentpal

Hi Daggers,

I've been busy transcribing the 10th Batt diary so hadnt really looked at the 11th until now. Its not good news i'm afraid, whereas the 10th diary mentions every time a man is wounded even by name and number in early entries the 11th diary is very sparse in information.

All details of officers wounded and killed are included but I cant find any mention of other ranks. I've worked backwards from your date to July 31st and there is no mention of any other ranks wounded, in fact the three days of Pilckem 31st July to 2nd August is briefly summed up as

"The total casualties during these operations numbered 320 killed, wounded and missing".

The11th Battalion leave the Ypres area on 9th September going to Proven then Morbecque area on 13th September, Sailly sur la lys on the 14th before arriving at Estaires on the 15th September. Two companies are billeted in Laundry, Sheet 36 H.5.a.3.8 and two companies in the subsidary line C22.c.65.10 under command of the 10th. When I get chance tomorrow I'll look in the 10th Diary and see if any thing is mentioned. As they were in the front line this might yield some information.

Just in case you didnt know, Angus enlisted in Liverpool.

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daggers

Thanks very much for that information. It has saved me much work in hunting for the diary. I know that 11th Battalion suffered heavily at Pilckem on 31 July and possibly at Langemark. Any more background would be much appreciated.

We know that Angus, a relative of my wife, was from Liverpool, but that bit of the family have proved as elusive in censuses etc as his service papers! From other Liverpool sources I learned that there was quite a strong Liverpool contingent in 11/SWB.

Thanks again

Daggers

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gwentpal

When the 10th and 11th Batt's went to Colwyn Bay for 6 months training the 10th were at full strength but the 11th were only 100 strong, new recruits were sent up from South Wales but there were also recruits from North Wales and England. According to Soldiers Died in the Great War there were 10 casualties who enlisted in Liverpool, law of averages say that some Liverpool enlistees would have survived?, do you have any idea when Angus enlisted?? as I'm trying to put together a database of SWB service numbers and enlistment dates.

Regarding the 10th Batt War Diary I might have something for you. The 16th and 17th September state that the 10th had all four companies in front line with two companies of the 11th in the Subsidary Line. Front line L'Epinette Sub Sector I.3.d.35.70.

21st September.

"Enemy artillery was fairly active during the morning, some 4.2 shells dropping on the Subsidary line at I 4a.45.50."

Days casualties 1 Other Rank died of wounds.

If I come across any more info I'll send you a mail.

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daggers

Thanks again, all useful. We believe Angus enlisted before August 1916 but have no evidence.

D

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mikerose

hi gwent pal my great grandfatherb served iwth the 10th battalion i have his number and pension papers if interested, he was Frederick Rose 21216 i dont have his enlistement date on me at the moment but will dig it out for you

regards

Mike

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gwentpal

Hi mike,

Thanks for the post, I have 21216 Frederick Rose landing in France 3rd December 1915 as a member of the original Battalion. Makes Sergeant. Enlisted in Abertillery, lived in Blaina Monmouthshire, occupation Train Driver?.

Finishes war in the Labour Corps.

Do you know his record is on Ancestry but anything you could tell me would be great.

Trying to build up a database on the original Battalion with a view to a future website so these men of the 10th Battalion 1st Gwent wont be forgotten.

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GraemeClarke

Morning Gwentpal

Researching

Private 41121 John Gossage, 11th Battalion, SWB. KiA 23 August 1917.

Would it be possible to post the War Diary for this date, please.

Many thanks,

Graeme

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gwentpal

Morning Graeme,

Pte 411121 John Gossage. According to SDGW born Cheslyn Hay Stafford, enlisted Cannock Staffs formely 61374 Royal Welsh Fusiliers,

War Diary Battalion had received orders on the 22nd to relieve 13th Welch in front line.

23rd August 1917

"7.30pm Battn started to move from Canal Bank in parties of 20 at 100yd intervals.

8.30pm Front party passed CANDLE TRENCH at C86.9.8

11.57pm Relief complete Battn Hqrs with Major Monteith in command are at Alouette Farm U29a 8.6, B & D companies are in front line and hold from U23d 50.70 to U24c 00.40 (d coy) and from U24c 00.40 to U30a 4.9 (b coy)

The supports A&C coys are approx from U29b 10.85 to U29b 35.60 and from U29a 45.90 to U29a 65.70.

The 17th RWF and 6th Border Regt are on our left and right respectively.

When the Battn was on its way up the SOS was being sent from Aloutte Farm by lamp. Shortly after our artillery opened up a very intense bombardment and the signal STOP was read. The enemy barrage just escaped us.

Our casualties were 1 Officer Wounded."

No mention of any other ranks being wounded or killed, the enemy bombardment carried on into early hours of 24th but no casualties on this date either. No casualties on the 22nd either. Strange as the SDGW gives the same date as you had, 23rd August.

Not sure what your next step could be although ive just had the War Diary for the 115th Infantry Brigade which the 11thnSWB were part of, when I get time later I'll see if anything is mentioned about casualties.

Let me know if you find anything out.

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GraemeClarke

Hi Gwentpal,

Cheers, many thanks for the WD, appreciate it.

Unfortunately I do not have any further details at the present time, only those from 'official' sources.

Many thanks,

Graeme

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glide

Hi Gwentpal,

Do you have anything on 20500 Sgt. Thomas Joseph 10th Bn. He was KIA on 05/02/1916. Thanks.

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gwentpal

Hi Ponty,

That makes two of us from this forum living in Pontypool.

Thomas Joseph born Tredegar 1877, the 1911 census has him and his wife Elizabeth lodging in 10 New Cwm Terrace, Cwm; he's employed as a Coal Miner working for the Ebbw Vale Coal and Iron Co probably working in Marine Colliery at the bottom end of the village. Employment for the mine had reached 2000 men by the time of the Great War.

Soldiers who Died in the Great War record gives Elizabeth's address as 5 New Cwm Street, but this info was collected in the 1920's so without checking yearly electoral registers its difficult to tell whether they changed address's before he enlisted or whether Elizabeth moved as a widow.

His number 20500 shows he enlisted in Cwm and was an original member of the battalion who landed in France on 3rd December 1915.

The War Diarys unfortunately differ in content and information not only between Battalions but also within the same diary, it all differs to

How much detail the adjutant felt was necessary.

Sadly to say whoever wrote the first years entries for the 10th Batt was a man of few words, all diary entries for the first six months are merely two lines. The diary entry for the date you require simply reads

"5th Feb 1916 Trenches at Croix Barbee"

"Battalion in Trenches. Fairly quiet day. Casualties 1 Killed 20500 Sgt T Joseph + 1Wounded"

There's no other detail not even location reference numbers, I havent got any trench maps yet so cant give you any help in this area maybe another forum member could.

Are you related to Thomas Joseph, is there any info you can give me. Thanks.

He is buried in St Vaast Post Military Cemetary France.

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glide

Hi,

No, I`m not related to Thomas Joseph, I have his medal trio and was wondering what actually happened to him that day. Thank you very much for the information. Martin.

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Guest sbeynon23

Hello, I am researching my Great Grandfather, Private Edward Whatley. He was killed in France on 25th or 29th February 1916. There is a discrepancy on his records on Cwgc site.

He was a Collier from Ebbw Vale, his army number was 20252. He was a member of 10th Battalion, South Wales Borderers. I visited his grave at Le Touret Cemetery many years ago and would be grateful for any further information you could give me.

Many Thanks,

Steve

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gwentpal

Steve, I've sent you a PM. Thanks.

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Mozza

Gwentpal,

Thank you for the potential opportunity! I am trying to find out more about my Great Grandfather's war record from WW1. He is George Francis Stinchcombe Private 22457. I have his medal card & a few other documents. He joined the South Wales Borderers (Not sure if 10th or 11th Service Battalion1st or 2nd Gwent). I know he was only in this for a brief time as he joined the RE 156321 later in the war and then married a French girl (my great grandmother) who he met somewhere on the front line near Vimy and later found her in Boulogne & then Marsaille. It would be fantastic if you could help in any way to help piece together anything from the War diary relating to him. Thanks again.

Regards

Nick (Mozza)

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gwentpal

Nick,

Sorry for the delay in answering. Theres not much I can tell you about his Borderers service he wasnt in the regiment that long.

He lived at 45 Lewis St, Crumlin , Monmouthshire and enlisted in the 11th Battalion on 1st June 1915. The 10th Battalion was fully formed and in Colwyn Bay by Jan 1915, the 11th were 100 strong by Jan 1915 so formed up a bit slower.

Landed in France on 4th December 1915, train from Le Havre to Aire then marched to Witternesse for training. At the end of December they proceeded to Riez Du Vinage where they were split up in Companys and posted to East Lancs and Royal Lancs regts for introduction in trench warfare. Later in Jan they proceeded to Pont du Hem for their own stint in the front line. That about it for George for according to his record he transferred to Royal Engineers on the 30th Jan 1916. His record is on Findmypast, there is a free months offer of membership on the site at moment.

Great story about him meeting his wife in France she most have seemed so exotic compared to the women of Crumlin, no offence meant ladies. Cheers Gwentpal

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Mozza

Gwentpal,

Thank you for the information it all helps. She probably found him rather exciting too! Her story is amazing and I hope to dig into George's RE role as she said she thought he was in the secret service! Much appreciated. Regards

Nick

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Guest glastomama

Hi my great uncle Arthur vaughan 22207 served with 11th swb and was killed in action 31st July 1917 I would like to find out more if I can but I think I'm looking in circles. I seem to end up at the CWGC every time. He's buried in cement house cemetery any help would be welcome thanks ?

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Guest OldMike

Private William Elwyn Treble of Abercarne,Wales(b. 1896) joined either the 10th or 11th ?? Battalion of the South Wales Borderers Regiment-# 20717.

Letters received in USA lead me to think Willie was wounded on the Somme in Summer,1916 possibly at the Battle of Marmetz Wood, July,1916??

I think he was wounded/gassed again during the German Army’s Spring, 1918 offensive, possibly the Battle of the Lys, April,1918??

He spent the last six months of the war in hospital in England and died young in 1922, perhaps due to his wounds?

OldMike

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gwentpal

Hi Oldmike,

Thanks for getting in touch, if William Elwyn Treble had a number in the 20xxx range he certainly enlisted in the 10th Battalion. Ive got his name on my database but am still working my way thro the lower numbers so details on him are sketchy. The lower numbers of block 207xx were allocated between Abercarn and Cwmcarn so he almost certainly enlisted in Abercarn probably middle of December 1914.

Im researching 10th with a view to putting together a web site or a book about them so would be grateful if you could share any info with me. Youve certainly got some great stuff there, was William a relative of yours?.

Contact me on gwentpal@hotmail.com Thanks

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brummie76

Hi Gwentpal

Its a long shot but i just found out about a Great Grand Uncle of mine..... He served with the 2nd Battn Royal Welch Fusiliers, His name was Walter Howard Boswell no. 6739. Born in 1883 and died Sept 20th 1915. I am guessing this was during the Battle of Loos.

Any info greatly received!

Cheers

Paul.

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Ron da Valli

Hi Gwentpal,

I am researching the names on Rhyl war memorial. There is

Harry Rigby ( Thomas Henry Basil Rigby) Pte 11490. He was shot for desertion on the 22nd November 1917. Would you have any details about him and what the 1st Gwents were up to about that time.

Many thanks in advance,

Regards,

Darryl

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Scalyback

later in the war and then married a French girl (my great grandmother)

Gwentpal,

Thank you for the information it all helps. She probably found him rather exciting too! Her story is amazing and I hope to dig into George's RE role as she said she thought he was in the secret service! Much appreciated. Regards

Nick

My Great Grandmother was from Northen Somme area, Great Grand dad was from ummmmmmmmmmm Barry! With regards to sercet service, his son(my grandfather) served in SOE and now the family is returned to Wales...........with a blood line left in France. So Welsh lads did get into the local ladies with style it appears.

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