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ER-Andy

Siege Artillery School Hull,

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ER-Andy

I am trying to find the location of the Siege Artillery School in Hull, If anyone knows of the location it would be really appreciated. I also know of a Artillery Training School at Fort Paull and wonder if this is the same school. Thanks in anticipation

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kevinrowlinson

May I ask where you have seen these terms used for Hull and Paull Point?

Kevin

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joseph

Hi

Park Street Artillery Barracks, the Main gate was at the junction of Colonial Street and Park Street opposite what is now the Hull School of Art and Design, also the rear entrance to St Stephens shops.

It was the home of the East Riding Royal Garrison Artillery.

Regards Charles

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joseph

Hi,

Having now checked my records;

Headquarters Office, Royal Artillery, Humber Garrison, 12 Queen Street Hull

Mapping Department, Educational Office, Albion Street, Hull

Manufacturing Workshops, the Technical College, Park Street, Hull

School of Instruction, 5 Wright Street, Hull

Signalling Classes at Park Street and subsequently moved to Wenlock Barracks.

Paull Point Battery ceased to be manned by the RGA and was vacated in May 1915

Regards Charles

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kevinrowlinson

Hi,

Having now checked my records;

Headquarters Office, Royal Artillery, Humber Garrison, 12 Queen Street Hull

Mapping Department, Educational Office, Albion Street, Hull

Manufacturing Workshops, the Technical College, Park Street, Hull

School of Instruction, 5 Wright Street, Hull

Signalling Classes at Park Street and subsequently moved to Wenlock Barracks.

Paull Point Battery ceased to be manned by the RGA and was vacated in May 1915

Regards Charles

Charles,

I wondered where the "Siege Artillery School" came from as I am sure you will agree is different to "School of Instruction" and all the above addresses pertain to the TF.

I have certainly seen in records many gunners who were posted to Paull Point into 1917. Again I wonder whether it was a change of name/establishment. There are quite a few batteries that are credited as being formed there, the last I can see being 394 SB on the 3rd March 1917. Again it may have been the ending of an official establishment of a Paull Point Battery that confusion may arise.

Kevin

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joseph

Kevin,

The information came from the History of the ERRGA, which amalgamated with the RGA in 1916.

The Siege Artillery School was in Park Street, Paull Point Battery was a holding camp and part of the fire control system for the Humber Garrison.

Regards Charles

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kevinrowlinson

Kevin,

The information came from the History of the ERRGA, which amalgamated with the RGA in 1916.

The Siege Artillery School was in Park Street, Paull Point Battery was a holding camp and part of the fire control system for the Humber Garrison.

Regards Charles

Thanks for that Charles. Must say I don't understand (ERRGA, which amalgamated with the RGA in 1916?). When was the HIstory written please? To me there seems some confusion between the TF and regular establishments and what they were doing.

Kevin

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joseph

Kevin,

The History was penned in 1919, and I mean penned its mostly hand written (there is only one, it was presented to the then CO). There is no confusion between the TF and Regulars as they did amalgamate via the Humber Garrison and fire control.

By 1916 most of the ERRGA had been mobilized to Siege and Anti Aircraft Battery's and had been replaced with drafts from Dover etc.

Regards Charles

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kevinrowlinson

Charles,

Rather than continue to discuss what may have been written in the History of the ERRGA I think that it is easier to agree to disagree on some points, but for anyone who may read this thread in the future the following is what I think.

"Paull Point Battery ceased to be manned by the RGA and was vacated in May 1915" Totally disagree and can find ample evidence that this was not the case. A detachment of 12 Coy (Tynemouth RGA) were posted there and was where many gunners were posted from the main depots for training before being posted to batteries on formation at Paull Point. Eventually the remains of the Coy were posted to 5 Coy ERRGA on the 25th June 1917. Perhaps the author meant that ERRGA TF vacated Paull Point in May 1915.

I think my understanding of the word "amalgamated" is different to the History author, and can only believe that he meant "regular" gunners were posted to it. The ERRGA TF Assoc. I am sure remained independent, even if it wasn't actively recruiting after about Nov. 1916, or having men mobilised to it.

Kevin

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joseph

Hi Kevin,

"Paull Point Battery ceased to be manned by the RGA and was vacated in May 1915" Totally disagree and can find ample evidence that this was not the case. A detachment of 12 Coy (Tynemouth RGA) were posted there and was where many gunners were posted from the main depots for training before being posted to batteries on formation at Paull Point. Eventually the remains of the Coy were posted to 5 Coy ERRGA on the 25th June 1917. Perhaps the author meant that ERRGA TF vacated Paull Point in May 1915.

I think my understanding of the word "amalgamated" is different to the History author, and can only believe that he meant "regular" gunners were posted to it. The ERRGA TF Assoc. I am sure remained independent, even if it wasn't actively recruiting after about Nov. 1916, or having men mobilised to it.

I can see what you say, but what did they train on........ the guns were removed in May 1915, I suppose the accommodation was still available as it was in WW2, when it was an ammunition depot.

The Heavy batteries trained on Hedon Racecourse just a short march away.

Regards Charles

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kevinrowlinson

I can see what you say, but what did they train on........ the guns were removed in May 1915, I suppose the accommodation was still available as it was in WW2, when it was an ammunition depot.

The Heavy batteries trained on Hedon Racecourse just a short march away.

Regards Charles

Completely agree with you Charles. If 12 Coy was at Paull Point it does not necessarily mean that the men were. They may have been camped/billeted anywhere and also trained, but that may have also applied to many gunners before the guns were removed in 1915. The point I was making was the posting of men to 12 Coy Paull Point (or anywhere else) was for administration purposes but nevertheless the RGA was represented there. It would be easy to think that men were "posted" to 12 Coy, then "posted" to the ERRGA, and renumbered, without moving where they were living or training. The later ERRGA TF numbered gunners may not have lived at Hull and certainly those posted from the main depots didn't but without research into those Siege Batteries that were supposedly formed at Paull Point up to March 1917 it is hard to comment on where they were living or trained at Hull. I am afraid I have no idea on what guns they were trained on either during 1916/1917.

The photo is very timely given the thread starters post isn't it? Again it would need proper research to identify exactly what/who it pertains to. I am sure someone could identify when it was established or possibly amended by AO or ACI. Unless the TF was completely different to the "regular" RGA then I have always got the impression that everything had to be followed by approved amendments or formation of units. Given the number of officers then I would suggest that it was they who were being schooled and not gunners and is a class photo with instructors.

Kevin

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KONDOA

Somewhere Charles has a photo taken at Hedon railway station of some Mk ?? Guns/Howitzers being delivered for one of the Siege Batteries formed at Hedon. I unfortunately lost my copy when my computer dipped out some years ago. This may be a big clue, although date wise, Hedon did not remain as a training / camp for too long.

Chas, think back to around 2005/2006

Roop

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joseph

Hi,

Roop, the photo you show on EBay is a Class of Special Reserve Officers at the Siege Artillery School Park Street it commenced 19 February 1916, I have all of their names if required.

The Photo at Hedon.

Regards Charles

post-7039-0-90869600-1404204868_thumb.jp

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joseph

Kevin,

Looking at more references the Crews for the Armed Trains, could well have been billeted at Paul Point, the married quarters were also occupied, it was also a secret Development establishment and designed new types of armour for gun defences.

12 Coy Formed 198 Siege Battery at Hedon in July 1916 Captain Adam Brown was the formation officer.

Regards Charles

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kevinrowlinson

Charles

Although not specifically interested in these batteries I couldn't help having a look. Of course you probably already know but anyone in future who searches the forum may find it useful.

The siege batteries that I can find that were officially authorised ( e.g. 198 SB under ACI 1497 of 1916) and places given are;

164th Siege Battery Humber 23-5-1916. The ERRGA men who were posted to it were later renumbered between approx. 165863-165936

198th Siege Battery Humber 13-7-1916. Men from 12 Coy

237th Siege Battery Humber 12-8-1916. ditto

257th Siege Battery Humber 13-9-1916 ditto

298th Siege Battery Humber 1-11-1916 ditto

349th Siege Battery Paull-on Humber 6-1-1917 ditto

394th Siege Battery Paull Point 3-3-1917 ditto

434th Siege Battery Humber 24-4-1917 ditto

One can see that they didn't specify where exactly in Hull or nearby except, of those records I have seen, apart from 164 SB they were mainly from 12 Coy. That does not mean that ERRGA men didn't join the these batteries but I haven't as yet seen significant numbers. Unfortunately it is rare to see the English postings of a battery but one for 237 SB is;

post-14294-0-25059100-1404219711_thumb.j

For this battery at least it was only there roughly a month. Others may vary.

The only other siege battery of note is those ERRGA gunners posted on formation (3-11-1915) to 77th Siege Battery at Portsmouth. The greatest number of ERRGA gunners who were renumbered from the regular series served with AA Coys and Sects.

Reference the Siege School I suppose that one cannot even trust what is written on some photos, which I suppose is a good reason to question everything.

Kevin

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joseph

Kevin,

Not trusting what was written on photos or histories written by people who were there, does make a mockery of history.

Following the records can give a false impression, why do the men that where there say HEDON?? maybe the pen pushers lived and worked at Paul Point.

All the Siege Batteries you state where formed by the Humber Garrison, yes the 77th Siege Battery was formed by the ERRGA, as where several AA Coys including No 1 which was detailed to defend London.

I have numerous Class photos from the Siege Battery School in Hull, when it was in Park Street and Wenlock Barracks, does seem odd that Paull Point had many uses, I cannot find any mention of it being a School for siege artillery though. Now Paull Holme did have a range out into the Humber, but only for 1'' aiming shots.

Have you got any information regarding the Siege Battery School being at Paull Point.

Inside Park Street Barracks.

post-7039-0-85603200-1404252469_thumb.jp

Regards Charles

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kevinrowlinson

Charles,

"Not trusting what was written on photos or histories written by people who were there, does make a mockery of history."

I don't think so. Depends when it was written and by who. There has been a book discussed on forum written by a gunner many years later about his experiences which for many people, me included, the descriptions, places and actions border on fiction. Memory for a lot of people alters and can be slightly misleading. You suggest that in the photo the Class of Special Reserve Officers at the Siege Artillery School Park Street commenced in 19 February 1916, yet it is dated 1915. I am happy to think that you are correct and the person who wrote on the photo just got his date wrong.

"Following the records can give a false impression, why do the men that where there say HEDON?? maybe the pen pushers lived and worked at Paul Point."

I completely agree, I would suspect they were at Hedon and the pen pushers were at Paull Point. This is another reason for questioning what was written even at the time. I think it boils down to interpretation, but I have already agreed with you in post 12. If you, and I, did not know that there was a party of 12 Coy somewhere in the vicinity of Hull then there would be a lot of people who may suggest, from official documentation, that they were only based at Tynemouth.

" I cannot find any mention of it being a School for siege artillery though," and "Have you got any information regarding the Siege Battery School being at Paull Point?"

I too have not heard of one which is why I asked the question in post 2. I wondered whether the thread starter (who doesn't seem that interested anyway) had seen it written on any thing else he may have.

Did you ever positively identify the How. in post 14 and exactly where it was taken?

Kevin

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joseph

Kevin,

The Howitzer has been the subject of of a topic and is definitely taken at Hedon rail station.

I only use contemporary accounts to research my area, and find it far more accurate than a source from a source from a source.

Who is right on this one;

post-7039-0-38132700-1404370887_thumb.jp

Regards Charles

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FredWilson

If any one has a photo of 237th siege battery who formed here August 1917 - approx 73 of them then I'd appreciate a copy. Researching Fred Wilson my Great Grand Father - died Bethume 21st May, 1918

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FredWilson

Charles

Although not specifically interested in these batteries I couldn't help having a look. Of course you probably already know but anyone in future who searches the forum may find it useful.

The siege batteries that I can find that were officially authorised ( e.g. 198 SB under ACI 1497 of 1916) and places given are;

164th Siege Battery Humber 23-5-1916. The ERRGA men who were posted to it were later renumbered between approx. 165863-165936

198th Siege Battery Humber 13-7-1916. Men from 12 Coy

237th Siege Battery Humber 12-8-1916. ditto

257th Siege Battery Humber 13-9-1916 ditto

298th Siege Battery Humber 1-11-1916 ditto

349th Siege Battery Paull-on Humber 6-1-1917 ditto

394th Siege Battery Paull Point 3-3-1917 ditto

434th Siege Battery Humber 24-4-1917 ditto

One can see that they didn't specify where exactly in Hull or nearby except, of those records I have seen, apart from 164 SB they were mainly from 12 Coy. That does not mean that ERRGA men didn't join the these batteries but I haven't as yet seen significant numbers. Unfortunately it is rare to see the English postings of a battery but one for 237 SB is;

attachicon.gifPaull Point 237 SB.jpg

For this battery at least it was only there roughly a month. Others may vary.

The only other siege battery of note is those ERRGA gunners posted on formation (3-11-1915) to 77th Siege Battery at Portsmouth. The greatest number of ERRGA gunners who were renumbered from the regular series served with AA Coys and Sects.

Reference the Siege School I suppose that one cannot even trust what is written on some photos, which I suppose is a good reason to question everything.

Kevin

Thks Kevin,

Most helpful. It gives a great timeline for my Great Great Grandfathers time prior to going to France

F Wilson ~ 237th Siege Battery

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Ron Clifton

Hi Kevin,

...

I can see what you say, but what did they train on........ the guns were removed in May 1915, I suppose the accommodation was still available as it was in WW2, when it was an ammunition depot.

...

Regards Charles

Hello Charles

I suspect that the guns which were removed in May 1915 were coast defence guns, whereas the Siege Batteries which were formed and trained around Hull would have used different weapons. In particular, the gun in the photo in your post 14 appears to be an eight-inch howitzer, which is not a coast defence weapon. Nor are the six-inch or 9.2-inch howitzer, and most Siege Batteries were equipped with one of these three types.

Ron

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