Uniforms of Dead Soldiers repaired and reused.

[jemm]

Perhaps things will be clearer when I get a look at the end of the article. In the meantime thanks for all the replies:)

[FROGSMILE]

Perhaps things will be clearer when I get a look at the end of the article. In the meantime thanks for all the replies:)

Yes, it will certainly be interesting to learn the outcome of the story.

A key point that I forgot to emphasise, but that is made clear in the article on RACD Pimlico that I linked, is that there were many outworkers who operated 'at home' (i.e in their own dwellings) in North London. It might well be that the lady concerned with the repairs was one of them.

[tony paley]

As Frogsmile said soldiers had more than one uniform. When units went into action their kit would be stored, usually the unit quartermaster, in the reserve area. In the event of being killed or seriously wounded then any equipment in good order would no doubt be cleaned and reissued. Personal items where appropriate could be returned to the family.

Tony P

[tocemma]

I once owned an SD tunic which had a paper label stating 'Part worn and repaired' I have seen at least one other example with the same label. I also have a photo lurking somewhere on my computer of female workers hammering out the 'sock' or inner sole of used boots so they could be reissued.

Warning GROs were issued concerning equipment such as respirator haversacks which, after being recovered from the battlefield and returned to repair depots, were found to contain live grenades and other ordnance. Clothing and equipment items were routinely cleaned, repaired and reissued, no doubt some of it from fatal casualties.

Regards

Tocemma

[Grovetown]

A picture of the label in my Part Worn jacket is in this thread.

 

I came across a discussion about Part Worn uniform in Hansard too a while back. Can't lay hands on it right now, yet emailed a link to it to Joe who might be able to access it more readily.

Cheers,

GT.

[Falloden]

My Grandfather, Captain H J Young, DSC, whose ship HMT East Point was used to evacuate Suvla in December 1915, wrote from Alexandria on 15.02.1916:

""We left hurriedly at the end, when this wreck of a ship (East Point) was filled with every conceivable old thing from dead men's clothes and empty cartridge cases to heavy field guns and motor ambulances, we sailed away with 400 troops on board, brought down at night straight from the firing line."

[Andrew Upton]

There is no suggestion that bloodied and holed uniforms were sent back for repair... Also most men had two uniforms and, manifestly, only died in one of them.

As Frogsmile said soldiers had more than one uniform. When units went into action their kit would be stored, usually the unit quartermaster, in the reserve area. In the event of being killed or seriously wounded then any equipment in good order would no doubt be cleaned and reissued. Personal items where appropriate could be returned to the family.

The British practice of issuing more than one of the main bits of kit at any time actually ceased very early in the war, simply because it was now being found difficult enough to get every man into one set of kit at the same.

I have also seen original items of British SD that had well-executed patch repairs to worn out or damaged knees and cuffs. Will Wells is quoted in Osprey's "British Tommy" that in handing in his leather equipment on arriving in France in exchange for "... salvaged sets of webbing. Mine was stiff with dried blood, and I swapped it for a decent set as soon as I could". An original French greatcoat that was offered for sale several years ago sticks in my mind as well. The original wearer had apparently been very badly wounded in the lower body or legs which had resulted in the lower part of the coat being horrendously bloodstained. Most of this part had then been removed and a new patch of material skillfully inset, but the person executing the repair could not simply cut-away all the stained cloth, and so the parts leading to the new piece still showed heavy splatters of dried blood. It makes you wonder what the new owner thought when that was issued to him, but it shows that the practice of making uniforms and other equipment last as long as possible involved practices that modern sensibilities might disagree with.

A picture of the label in my Part Worn jacket is in this thread.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=141417&page=2

I came across a discussion about Part Worn uniform in Hansard too a while back. Can't lay hands on it right now, yet emailed a link to it to Joe who might be able to access it more readily.

The practice was still around in WW2 - uniforms can sometimes be found stamped PWS. Some dealers like to claim this is Prison of War Services or some-such to add value, but it apparently stands for Part Worn Servicable, and means the item had already been issued and used previously but was still in good enough shape to be reissued again.

[trenchtrotter]

I don't doubt uniforms were not re used / repaired if worn but I remain to be convinced those of the dead were (and I refer to the items worn at the time of death). Boots yes, equipment yes but tunics and trousers? I accept I am probably wrong but until a confirmed account is referenced I remain unconvinced. I just can't see for example a torn tunic with the sleeve cut off by medics being stripped, categorised, returned, washed and repaired?

BTW my comment earlier re the Germans recycling corpses was tongue in cheek to demonstrate how untruths can become the new truth. I realised it was Allied propaganda.

Love to see convincing evidence.

TT

[jay dubaya]

TT, I have seen several pictures over the years of British soldiers laid out waiting to be buried, one picture in particular that stands out shows them laid out in rows with wooden crosses on their chests, and all have their trousers and tunics on but not boots, there are at least 10 bodies in this picture

[trenchtrotter]

Jay

Agreed, see my comments re boots. I know the image to which you refer.

TT

[johnboy]

Of course, he may not have been wearing that tunic at the time of his death. Someone may have been wearing it at a different time and it was sent for repair by the stores.

It is a pity that the mender did not mention when she got it.

[jay dubaya]

TT, I have seen several pictures over the years of British soldiers laid out waiting to be buried, one picture in particular that stands out shows them laid out in rows with wooden crosses on their chests, and all have their trousers and tunics on but not boots, there are at least 10 bodies in this picture

found a few more pictures that show British dead awaiting burial (Windmill Farm), boots removed but tunics and trousers still worn, Scottish soldiers with kilts and tunics but no boots and not forgetting the Grimsby Chums who were found 2001? still with their boots on and no doubt their uniforms which overtime had rotted away.

[centurion]

The British practice of issuing more than one of the main bits of kit at any time actually ceased very early in the war, simply because it was now being found difficult enough to get every man into one set of kit at the same.

I have also seen original items of British SD that had well-executed patch repairs to worn out or damaged knees and cuffs. Will Wells is quoted in Osprey's "British Tommy" that in handing in his leather equipment on arriving in France in exchange for "... salvaged sets of webbing. Mine was stiff with dried blood, and I swapped it for a decent set as soon as I could". An original French greatcoat that was offered for sale several years ago sticks in my mind as well. The original wearer had apparently been very badly wounded in the lower body or legs which had resulted in the lower part of the coat being horrendously bloodstained. Most of this part had then been removed and a new patch of material skillfully inset, but the person executing the repair could not simply cut-away all the stained cloth, and so the parts leading to the new piece still showed heavy splatters of dried blood. It makes you wonder what the new owner thought when that was issued to him, but it shows that the practice of making uniforms and other equipment last as long as possible involved practices that modern sensibilities might disagree with.

The French did recycle blood stained items of clothing, one of the French SADs was shot for refusing to obey an order when he refused to wer blood stained clothing. However this doesn't mean that the British army did likewise, In the case of the great coat you describe being blood soaked could well indicate that the original owner was wounded but spatter would seem more likely to indicate that they had been standing close to someone else when they were badly hit

[FROGSMILE]

Much of this has been covered before in a thread re the recycling of uniforms from field and general hospitals:

 

Here is just a small section of a post there by Joe Sweeney:

Salvage of uniforms became a big deal in the British Army due to wastage.

There are no good easily available sources.

Best written source is the History of the Army Odrnance Services, but hard to get. That source talks about one Division recorded as employing a workshop of three tailors where serviceable bits of puttee from unserviceable pairs were re-sewn to make new serviceable pairs.[1]

The puttees came from all sources.

Hospitals per se did not do the salvage work, they would turn in the mass of clothing. French woman were employed in recycling uniform items.

Usually, with Jackets and trousers they would be inspected and be determined to be deemed servable or not. If unservicable they were to be bailed and sent to the UK for recycling into blankets etc. Serviceable items were repaired for re-issue and marked as category W (worn). These were not intended to be re-issued to frontline troops but instead issued in emergencies to UK troops, also issued as work clothing to specific units and Labour Corps.

I do not know what would be deemed serviceable of clothing from casualties--clothing from the dead was not reissued (unlike Germany).

Initially in the war, the practice of sending the Dead's uniforms (after inspection) was done but an order forbidding the practice was issued very early on.

You might want to go to the IWM or order via library loan a series of Documents known a CDS/SS 309 which are abstracts of Adj. Gen Orders in France that in cases talks about specifics of what is to be done.

In addition you can go to the Canadian War Diaries--online--

http://www.collectio...02015202_e.html

You can go to the Salvage Companies WD--I know 3rd Division Salvage Coy talks about salvaging thousands of uniforms.

Also go to the Hospital and CCS WD.

Although Canadian same applies to British Army.

Joe Sweeney


I have no doubt that the RACD at Pimlico were initially involved in the repair for re-issue of serviceable uniforms from amongst dead men's effects, until the practice was ceased, as mentioned by Joe above.

[Andrew Upton]

...In the case of the great coat you describe being blood soaked could well indicate that the original owner was wounded but spatter would seem more likely to indicate that they had been standing close to someone else when they were badly hit...

I can only say if you were able to see it as I did you would know it was no near miss for the poor unfortunate wearing it at the time..

[trenchtrotter]

Frogsmiles seems to give us the answer. Thanks

TT

Frogsmiles seems to give us the answer. Thanks

TT

[jemm]

Unfortunately the end of the article offers no further information.

[FROGSMILE]

Unfortunately the end of the article offers no further information.

That's very interesting Jemm. It should be possible to confirm his death via 'soldiers died of the Great War'.

[jemm]

That's very interesting Jemm. It should be possible to confirm his death via 'soldiers died of the Great War'.

I have done yes : )

[FROGSMILE]

I have done yes : )

Then it seems to me that the story is unlikely to be apocryphal.