Makers of WW1 Knives, Forks & Spoons

[Guest]

Thanks for your help BillyH

As a novice here I'm puzzled by some aspects of the enlistment system. Firstly, am I right in thinking that this is a regimental number, and for the Leinster Regiment? Secondly, were regimental numbers issued  sequentially? The nearest comparable number I can find is on the National Army Museum website: ARMU001000009, Enlistment book of the Leinster Regiment, 1920-1922, army numbers 7177001-7178002. On page 43 a soldier with Army no. 7177254 attested in Dublin in 1909 and was given regimental number 9120. The next entry has the next army number but skips to 9127 for the regimental number. 

So that's a puzzle

[BillyH]

I personally don't have any doubt that the spoon belonged to 9121 in the 1st Leinsters.

Seven digit numbers were issued after the war. So a man who enlisted in 1909 (with a 4 digit number) may have served through the war and continued his service afterwards. He would have been issued with a new 7 digit number soon after the war. Your enlistment date of 1909 is borne out on Paul Nixons website (see link below). I have searched for No. 9121 in service papers, medal cards, medal rolls, pension ledger cards, and silver war badges without success. I am pretty sure that he never served overseas.

https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/09/leinster-regiment-1st-2nd-battalions.html

BillyH.

[battle of loos]

good evening,

here is a new series of my collection (knife - fork and pocket knife) : 

1 : Jack knife - J .CLARCKE & Son - SHEFFIELD

2 : Canadian jack knife - M&D. CANADA - 1915 (Militia & Defence) (find Neuville St Vaast)

3 : knife (find Loos)

4 : iron fork (find Loos)

5 :  iron knife - Thomas WILSON - Sheffield - 1916

 

regards

michel

[Dave66]

Nice to see the bottom 1916 dated knife (don’t have one but keep rummaging through charity shop cutlery), hadn’t change much in style by the time ww2 came around by the looks of things…..most dealers ask a small fortune for ww2 dated versions.

Dave.

[Tito Rogers]

Hello, I wonder if anyone could identify this spoon please? It's been in our family from WW1 and I'm having trouble finding what regiment it was from and who it belonged to. Thanks in advance to anyone who can clear this up for us. 

[Gunner 87]

On 26/09/2022 at 22:42, Tito Rogers said:

Hello, I wonder if anyone could identify this spoon please? It's been in our family from WW1 and I'm having trouble finding what regiment it was from and who it belonged to. Thanks in advance to anyone who can clear this up for us. 

Hi Tito. Welcome to the forum. I have searched against 9075 in Fold3, which covers all held on Ancestry, and Find My Past looking for soldiers with the initial LMY which that appears, from your photograph, to be stamped into the spoon, with no luck. Do you have a relative in mind or a family surname that it could be connected to? In addition,as I'm sure you know, the broad arrow on the reverse signifies it is British military issue and won't assist in identifying the regiment or owner. 

 

[PhilB]

It could be 1st West Yorks?

[Dave66]

55 minutes ago, PhilB said:

It could be 1st West Yorks?

I’d agree, it COULD be Walter Thomas Marshal…if someone could tie him down to the 1st battalion.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/1129578:1262?_phsrc=VLY10&_phstart=successSource&ml_rpos=10&queryId=0b929948e74490e6bcc1a3f40a5ee84a
 

Dave.

[Gunner 87]

1 hour ago, PhilB said:

It could be 1st West Yorks?

Good shout PhilB.

There is a Sergeant E Clayton 9075 Wets Yorks Regiment MID 11/12/1917 but no battalion listed. Also Private G Rothwell 3/9075 who was with 2nd Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment when admitted to 4th Stationary Hospital on the 21/12/1914 but this doesn't discount a transfer from the 1st. 

Edited 28 September , 2022 by Gunner 87

[Gunner 87]

7 minutes ago, Dave66 said:

I’d agree, it COULD be Walter Thomas Marshal…if someone could tie him down to the 1st battalion.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/1129578:1262?_phsrc=VLY10&_phstart=successSource&ml_rpos=10&queryId=0b929948e74490e6bcc1a3f40a5ee84a
 

Dave.

Dave, I think the number is 9075 as opposed to 9073. 

[Gunner 87]

19 minutes ago, Dave66 said:

I’d agree, it COULD be Walter Thomas Marshal…if someone could tie him down to the 1st battalion.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/1129578:1262?_phsrc=VLY10&_phstart=successSource&ml_rpos=10&queryId=0b929948e74490e6bcc1a3f40a5ee84a
 

Dave.

Dave, looking at the last digit I'm finding it very difficult to tell whether its a 3 or 5 but if you are correct then Water Thomas Marshall did serve with the 1st Battalion. 

[PhilB]

I think it`s a 3, gents.

[GWF1967]

2 hours ago, PhilB said:

I think it`s a 3, gents.

9073 for me!

[Tito Rogers]

16 hours ago, Gunner 87 said:

Hi Tito. Welcome to the forum. I have searched against 9075 in Fold3, which covers all held on Ancestry, and Find My Past looking for soldiers with the initial LMY which that appears, from your photograph, to be stamped into the spoon, with no luck. Do you have a relative in mind or a family surname that it could be connected to? In addition,as I'm sure you know, the broad arrow on the reverse signifies it is British military issue and won't assist in identifying the regiment or owner. 

 

Thank you for your response. And for your research. No the initials don't mean anything, our family names back then we're Ingram and Carroll. Yes, that was the one thing I found out, that it was military issue. Our family were from Birmingham so I suppose they'd have been in local regiments. Thank you very much for your response and welcome. 

9 hours ago, PhilB said:

It could be 1st West Yorks?

Thank you. That might be helpful. 

[Tito Rogers]

8 hours ago, Dave66 said:

I’d agree, it COULD be Walter Thomas Marshal…if someone could tie him down to the 1st battalion.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/1129578:1262?_phsrc=VLY10&_phstart=successSource&ml_rpos=10&queryId=0b929948e74490e6bcc1a3f40a5ee84a
 

Dave.

Thank you very much for this. My brother has done a lot with the family tree so I'll see if he recognises this. 

Thank you to everyone who has responded to this. Much appreciated. 

[Gunner 87]

21 hours ago, Tito Rogers said:

Thank you very much for this. My brother has done a lot with the family tree so I'll see if he recognises this. 

Thank you to everyone who has responded to this. Much appreciated. 

Tito, it appears the Walter Thomas Marshall initially enlisted into the Hussars on the 13/11/02 transferring to the 1st Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment on the 12/01/09 and serving with them and the 3rd Battalion until sometime 04/14 when he was posted to the 4th Battalion. I have attached Walters Military Re-Engagement Paper and Statement of Service. 

[Gunner 87]

This link will take you to an interesting article about the spoon and I mention it as the artefact they discuss belonged to a 4th Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment soldier and is stamped '4 W Y' which lends support to yours being '1 W Y' ..... https://talesfromthesupplydepot.blog/2017/03/15/ww1-regimentally-marked-spoon/

Edited 29 September , 2022 by Gunner 87

[Dave66]

Excellent gunner.😀.

Dave.

 

[Tito Rogers]

On 29/09/2022 at 15:13, Gunner 87 said:

Tito, it appears the Walter Thomas Marshall initially enlisted into the Hussars on the 13/11/02 transferring to the 1st Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment on the 12/01/09 and serving with them and the 3rd Battalion until sometime 04/14 when he was posted to the 4th Battalion. I have attached Walters Military Re-Engagement Paper and Statement of Service. 

Thank you so much for this! I really appreciate it. I'll forward it to my brother to see if he can shed any light re extended family. 

On 29/09/2022 at 15:18, Gunner 87 said:

This link will take you to an interesting article about the spoon and I mention it as the artefact they discuss belonged to a 4th Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment soldier and is stamped '4 W Y' which lends support to yours being '1 W Y' ..... https://talesfromthesupplydepot.blog/2017/03/15/ww1-regimentally-marked-spoon/

Thank you very much indeed. You've all been quite fantastic on here. 

[Mikeb102]

Hello all, new to the forum, but looking for help with my new acquisition. I can't figure out the unit. Is there such a thing as the North Staffordshire Dragoons? Any help would be appreciated.

[BillyH]

Not really convinced about this one, but it's the best I can find - and it may draw the attention of other more expert members?

9003 Pte Henry Bennett (Notts + Derby Regiment) : kia 20.10.1914

BillyH.

[Mikeb102]

Thank you for the info Billy. Another lead would be North Staffordshire Regiment, however, the only Reqimental number of 9003 I could find lists troops from the South Staffordshire Regiment. This one is an odd duck for sure.

[Dave66]

Officially, if it were North Staffs, it should be N.STF., but I can’t see what else it would be.

There is a prewar sergeant that would fit the bill, but, with all these things, may just be speculation!… MIC courtesy of ancestry below.

Dave.

[Mikeb102]

Thank you Dave. This is very interesting. One has to wonder if this is the original owner, did the spoon follow him throughout his service. I have to say, here in Canada things are very easy to decipher in regards to service research.

[Dave66]

3 hours ago, Mikeb102 said:

Thank you Dave. This is very interesting. One has to wonder if this is the original owner, did the spoon follow him throughout his service. I have to say, here in Canada things are very easy to decipher in regards to service research.

The spoon should have stayed with him throughout his service, and looking at the tip it has seen considerable use….if the spoon were found in canada, and you could find records supporting William travelling or moving there, that would strengthen the case that it was indeed his spoon….happy hunting Mike.

Dave.