Athelaus Posted 6 June , 2014 Share Posted 6 June , 2014 Dear All, I have a query regarding the above named individual whose WW1 medals were given to me by a work colleague who thought I might be able to trace something of his history. From some preliminary research I think I've established the following: WSA = Warrant Skipper Auxilliary Royal Naval Reserve (T) = Royal Naval Reserve (Trawler Section) Skr = Skipper, RNR (T) He may have been part of the crew of H.M Drifter 'Ocean Plough' which was mined and sunk 27 August 1916 in the North Sea off Lowestoft , with all crew lost. This is where my limited powers of research in all things Naval have dried up. Could anyone out there point me in the right/better direction. Many thanks in advance. Here's hoping Kevin Rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 6 June , 2014 Share Posted 6 June , 2014 I think Owen Rowland is your man, born 22nd July 1883 in Rushmere, Suffolk - http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D8585214 He appears as Skipper (probationary) Ocean Plough in The Navy List in October 1914 - http://www.mocavo.co.uk/The-Navy-List-Corrected-to-18th-October-1914-Volume-Nov-1914/594102/601 There are only 5 casualties (3 deck hands and 2 enginemen) shown for Ocean Plough on 27/8/1916 - http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1916-08Aug.htm He seems to have been demobilized in 1919 - http://www.mocavo.co.uk/The-Navy-List-Corrected-to-18th-October-1919-Volume-Nov-1919/538889/1369 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 6 June , 2014 Share Posted 6 June , 2014 WSA is not an acronym - it is merely the suffix to the RNR official number which indicates a skipper RNR on his first period of enrolment (WSB for 2nd period, WSC for 3rd period). His correct name is Owen ROWLAND. His original RNR record of service is held by the Fleet Air Arm Museum but Kew have made very bad, digital, low-resolution, B&W scans, which are often unreadable. Five men were killed when the OCEAN PLOUGH was mined but the skipper (not Rowland) and two other crew survived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 6 June , 2014 Share Posted 6 June , 2014 (edited) He was not a casualty 27 Aug. 1916 when "Ocean Plough" was mined while in tow or the paddle minesweeper "Clacton", five hands were killed, the skipper, James Cutler, RNR and two others survived. Terry Edit: Not quick enough - was double checking! This is the link to his record at Kew Edited 6 June , 2014 by TcM59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelaus Posted 6 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 6 June , 2014 Well Gentlemen, It appears that I've come to the right place. Sincere thanks to you both (and anybody else who can/does help) Regards Kevin Rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadsac Posted 7 June , 2014 Share Posted 7 June , 2014 Kevin, no knowledge of Roland / Rowland, but find here award to Skipper of OCEAN PLOUGH ; CUTTER James 833DA Skipper RNR 84S007 Drifter Ocean Plough Commodore in Charge Naval Base Lowestoft 27.06.17 Gazetted Auxiliary Patrols to 31.12.16 DSC This officer was enrolled on the 10th August, 1914, and was Skipper of H.M. Drifter "Ocean Plough" until July, 1915, when that vessel was blown up by mine and Skipper Cutter himself severely injured. From the 27th March, 1915, the Ocean Plough served as mark boat at the Jim Hour Shoal Buoy, and although unarmed during the whole of this period, attempted on several occasions to ram enemy submarines. WSA = War Service A (A being derivation - B/C as per Horatio's input) TCM - Note I have CUTTER not CUTLER as you have ?? Sadsac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 7 June , 2014 Share Posted 7 June , 2014 Sadsac Cutter is right - my double checking wasn't good enough! This is the Link to his service record at Kew. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 7 June , 2014 Share Posted 7 June , 2014 WSA = War Service A (A being derivation - B/C as per Horatio's input). WS has nothing to do with "War Service". The WS designation for warrant-holding RNR skippers was in force long before WW1 and right through the inter-war years and WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 7 June , 2014 Share Posted 7 June , 2014 Elsewhere on the forum, it is said to denote "Warrant Skipper", meaning that he held a Board of Trade Certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 7 June , 2014 Share Posted 7 June , 2014 Elsewhere on the forum, it is said to denote "Warrant Skipper", meaning that he held a Board of Trade Certificate. The warrant they held was a military (naval) warrant (as in warrant officer) - nothing to do with civilian certificates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadsac Posted 10 June , 2014 Share Posted 10 June , 2014 Horatio - I bow to your superior knowledge of such. Afraid it was an `educated-guess' - dangerous thinking, as I have found to my knowledge - - I stand in the corner for some time !! Heard that it was `War Service' whilst in RNSM !!!!!!! Sadsac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadsac Posted 10 June , 2014 Share Posted 10 June , 2014 Horry - pondering further on the WS controversy - could be W S = Warrant Service - after-all WS must MEAN summat !! Military wallahs just do not put single letters that do not MEAN summat - methinks !! T'is but a thought !! Sadsac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 10 June , 2014 Share Posted 10 June , 2014 It does - Warrant Skipper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 10 June , 2014 Share Posted 10 June , 2014 Sadsac, You could make the same argument about many of the RNR suffixes - why stop at skippers? A = Seaman RNR (why?); D = Seaman RNR and DA = Deckhand (why?); E = Seaman RNR and ED = engine room artificer (why?). In short there are many supposed acronyms that could be conjured up but none make much sense. There is no reason why the suffixes have to MEAN anything, in the sense of being acronyms. It may be helpful to link WS with Warrant Skipper or Warrant Service (and perhaps that was in the mind of the clever chaps who thought up the RNR suffixes) but there is no evidence, that I am aware of, to say that is how they were derived. IPT, I would love to know your authority for this (and for all the other suffixes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 10 June , 2014 Share Posted 10 June , 2014 I can confirm that D.A. stood for Deck 'And. Goes back to pirate times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 10 June , 2014 Share Posted 10 June , 2014 Shiver me timbers! Unfortunately you tell only part of the acronym, IPT, because DA means a "deckhand in the RNR Trawler Section on his 1st period of enrolment". DB means a deckhand on his 2nd period of enrolment. Sadsac says "Military wallahs just do not put single letters that do not MEAN summat - methinks !!" In fact naval wallahs have done this since 1908 when 'J' prefixes were used for RN seamen (presumably an acronym for 'Jolly Jack") and 'K' prefixes were used for stokers (presumably an acronym for "Koal Shovellers"). I will grant you that 'M' prefixes stood for "'Miscellaneous" but that covered about two dozen branches so was not exactly helpful. In short, all of the suffixes/prefixes MEAN something but that does not imply that they are acronyms. As an aside, WS as an acronym for Warrant Skipper overlooks the fact that WSA, WSB and WSC, etc, also include numerous Warrant Chief Skippers, who should be WCS but there is no such animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 10 June , 2014 Share Posted 10 June , 2014 From the 27th March, 1915, the Ocean Plough served as mark boat at the Jim Hour Shoal Buoy ... The Jim Howe buoy, perhaps? Re acronyms and initialisms, I always thought that the 'T' in RNR (T) stood for 'Tea Clippers' ... Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadsac Posted 11 June , 2014 Share Posted 11 June , 2014 Mick - most probably YES. My info was taken from a written (scribbled ??? file), or perhaps it was my `muxtip input' !!! IPT - `Deck 'and' ?? What about `Deck-Ape' ?????!!!! Sadsac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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