2nd Bat Royal Sussex in Feb 1915

[withdeanwombat]

A great uncle of mine in this Bat was killed in action on 16 Feb 1915, and never identified. It's been held in the family that he was near Bethune. Could this be right ? Also , can I get a copy of his death cert, or is that either impossible or not worthwhile ?

Thanks for any help.

[JMB1943]

According to the 2 RSR War Diary, the battalion was in action at Guinchy in the last week of January, 1915 and suffered numerous casualties. On Jan. 30th, the battalion marched to Bethune where it was billeted (out of the line) for the whole month of February and underwent training.

If you can give a full name, with middle name or initial, we can do a look-up on CWGC or SDGW to find "official" date/location of his death.

Regards,

JMB

[tootrock]

The 2nd Btn Royal Sussex was at Bethune from 31 January 1915 until 3 February, From 4 February until 28 February they were at Allouagne, 6 miles west of Bethune. During this period they were training, and no casualties were reported. The previous report of casualties had been on January 26 at Guinchy, 64 OR's killed wounded or missing.

Martin

Edit - must type faster!

[withdeanwombat]

According to the 2 RSR War Diary, the battalion was in action at Guinchy in the last week of January, 1915 and suffered numerous casualties. On Jan. 30th, the battalion marched to Bethune where it was billeted (out of the line) for the whole month of February and underwent training.

If you can give a full name, with middle name or initial, we can do a look-up on CWGC or SDGW to find "official" date/location of his death.

Regards,

JMB

Amazing speed - and thank you.

Soldier was S/2233 Pte George William Dumbrell, and any info will be most welcome.

[withdeanwombat]

The 2nd Btn Royal Sussex was at Bethune from 31 January 1915 until 3 February, From 4 February until 28 February they were at Allouagne, 6 miles west of Bethune. During this period they were training, and no casualties were reported. The previous report of casualties had been on January 26 at Guinchy, 64 OR's killed wounded or missing.

Martin

Edit - must type faster!

The family "oral history" suggests he was killed and body never recovered . Could this have caused a delayed time of death ?

[JMB1943]

Tootrock----thanks for the correction regarding the location during most of February; I must learn to read more slowly and type more quickly.

CWGC--- service no./ date/ regiment/ agree with your family history; aged 19 yrs.

Medal Index Card----LSR/2233; in theatre 29-Nov-14; KiA 16-Feb-15; mother: Mrs. J. Dumbrell, 97 Shirley St., Hove, Sussex

Regards,

JMB

[withdeanwombat]

Tootrock----thanks for the correction regarding the location during most of February; I must learn to read more slowly and type more quickly.

CWGC--- service no./ date/ regiment/ agree with your family history; aged 19 yrs.

Medal Index Card----LSR/2233; in theatre 29-Nov-14; KiA 16-Feb-15; mother: Mrs. J. Dumbrell, 97 Shirley St., Hove, Sussex

Regards,

JMB

Thank you for this - gaps being filled. I assume he is memorialised somewhere - somewhere I'd like to visit.

Off topic - 70 years ago today my Dad got shot and wounded at Sword Beach. He survived, and fought on in France and Germany, thus me and my pesky questions !

[JMB1943]

The disparity between last day of casualties (Jan. 26th) and date of death suggests possibly DoW on 16-Feb-15 from wounds suffered on Jan. 26th. although his MIC should then be labeled as DoW-----unless he was temporarily attached to another regiment as a reinforcement. CWGC lists about a half-dozen 2 RSR men (before the website dropped out on me; there may be more) who died on the same day.

Regards,

JMB

[JMB1943]

I have just been watching the D-Day anniversary celebrations on BBC America; I salute your father and all of the others who fought, died and lived !!!!

Regards,

JMB

[JMB1943]

Sorry, I should have given the memorial info. from CWGC.

He is commemorated on Panel 20 & 21 of the Le Touret Memorial.

JMB

[tootrock]

According to CWGC 27 men from the 2nd Btn died during February 1915.

19 are commemorated on the Le Touret memorial.

3 buried in Wimereux Cemetery

2 buried in Choques Cemetery

1 buried in Dover Cemetery

1 buried in Lillers Cemetery

1 buried in Boulogne Eastern Cemetery.

One can understand that those buried in cemeteries had been wounded previously, but not the missing.

Martin

[Jim Hastings]

Good evening,

Just to let you know he was a Special Reservist, so was posted from 3rd Royal Sussex in Dover to 2nd Royal Sussex

All the best with your research

Jim

[withdeanwombat]

Good evening,

Just to let you know he was a Special Reservist, so was posted from 3rd Royal Sussex in Dover to 2nd Royal Sussex

All the best with your research

Jim

Thanks ,Jim.

I'll show my absolute ignorance by asking what a Special Reservist was. In his last letter home he said he was going over sooner than expected because he was regarded as a good shot. I thought this might be "flannel" but perhaps there was something in it ?

[spof]

Some information on the Special Reserve here http://www.1914-1918.net/reserve.htm Similar to the Territorial Force but was liable to be called up for overseas duty.

[Jim Hastings]

He joined the Special Reserve in August 1914

All the best, Jim

[JMB1943]

The CGWC lists 11 men of RSR died on 16-Feb-15; however, one of these is B.T. Tivey SD/741 of the 11th Bn (and cannot find his MIC).

The other 10 are all 2nd Bn. and are all recorded by CWGC as KiA. However, a check of these against the MIC's shows only 6 as KiA; your man is one of these 6. As a second however.......

1 x MIC has "Died"

1 x MIC has "Dead"

2 x MIC has "Found Dead" one dated 6/2/15 instead of 16/2/15----maybe a typo ??

I had never previously seen these notations on MIC's.

This does seem consistent with bodies of some of the 64 killed/wounded/missing from Jan. 26th being found later.

Regards,

JMB

[Jim Hastings]

Hi JMB

You won't find an MIC for the 11th RSR man as he had not deployed, they did not go to the WF until March 1916

'Died' was used to denote a fatality other than 'Killed in Action' or 'Died of Wounds', e.g. illness, disease or accident. There were many cases of exposure/frostbite/cold weather injuries from the winter of 1914/5, men being invalided out of the service due to it, and some could die from such conditions. The 'found dead' could mean found frozen dead or dead from exposure at his post.

Sobering thoughts, eh?

(I did six arctic warfare exercises in Norway in the 1990s and with all the modern kit I still got frost nip and we had cases of frost bite too)

Hope this helps

Jim