FrancesH Posted 6 June , 2014 Share Posted 6 June , 2014 I should be very grateful if someone can help me with this one. I know the second attack of Bellewaerde Ridge was a diversionary attack early in the morning to distract from the main assault at Loos. By contrast with the previous attack in June there's very little about this one in the standard sources and I can't find anything at all about 6/DCLI except that they were there! I am particularly interested to know about their casualty rate but anything would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 6 June , 2014 Share Posted 6 June , 2014 The D.C.L.I. (43rd Brigade) were not involved in this attack, at 10 p.m. on the 25th the G.O.C. 43rd Brigade was ordered up to take over from the 42nd Brigade who had conducted the attack with the D.C.L.I. at 5 p.m. ordered up to The White Chateau, at 10 p.m. the D.C.L.I. were placed in the G.H.Q. line. The 7th K.R.R.C. who were attached to the 43rd Brigade, took over from the D.C.L.I. at White Chateau. The D.C.L.I. diary for the day reads as follows:- Ramparts: In Ramparts after success and failure of attack moved up from ramparts to L Farm dugouts about 10 a.m. Thence at about 6.30 p.m. to G.H.Q. north of Ypres - Roullers railway. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancesH Posted 6 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 6 June , 2014 Thank you Andy, that clarifies things beautifully! Most grateful. F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 6 June , 2014 Share Posted 6 June , 2014 Welcome Frances, it is an action I have gone into a lot of detail for due to a book on the subject of this attack (Blood & Iron) based on the 9th Rifle Brigades involvement from an officers old memorial book which was re-published with a lot more detail than the original letters, and my interest in The Rifle Brigade. Well worth a read if this action is of interest, edited by Jon Cooksey ISBN 184884297-X Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancesH Posted 6 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 6 June , 2014 Many thanks. I couldn't find anything about it either in my collection of WW1 books or online -- everything seemed to be about the earlier attack on Bellewaerde in June. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 6 June , 2014 Share Posted 6 June , 2014 Unfortunately these subsidiary attacks seem to have become largely forgotten due to the bigger Battle of Loo's. This action at bellewaerde was quite brutal with large loss. The R.S.M. of the 9th Rifle Brigade actually broke down in tears when he asked the O.C. where the Regiment was with the reply of this is what is left as the stragglers came in. The RB were not actually involved at Loo's but participated in the subsidiary attacks at Bois Grenier, Bellewaerde and Pietre. Quite often you find on headstones in the UK when a family member is remembered "Killed in The Battle of Loo's" Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancesH Posted 7 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 7 June , 2014 Hopefully this is the sort of thing which with the greatly increased interest in the detail of WW1 will now become recognised and studied. One can imagine someone like the RSM feeling tremendously bitter if he heard of that attack being dismissed as a 'sideshow' -- maybe his ghost will rest a little easier to know of your thoughtful analysis and respect for what the RBs went through. Surely analysis, respect and the most important of all, memory, is what the GWF and all the other projects offer. You are not truly dead while you still live in someone's memory -- so in a way we bring them back to life. I certainly feel my little group of ten have become living individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 7 June , 2014 Share Posted 7 June , 2014 Frances, I do agree wholeheartedly. If I can help you with anything regarding your man in the D.C.L.I. just let me know. The 14th Division and especially the RB Battalions within that Division is something of a passion of mine. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancesH Posted 9 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 9 June , 2014 Hi Andy I should be very grateful indeed if you can tell me what the 4th Division (and 6/DCLI in particular) were up to after the 2nd attack on Bellewaerde until mid-Dec 1915. This period is rather magnificently dismissed in the battalion history of 6/DCLI as 'nothing of interest occurred at all'. However, my subject managed to lose his right leg on 8 Dec, and while this was probably just as the result of a random incident on a regular patrol, I should like to know more about what the Division was up to. I have downloaded the war diary but I should like to put it in a broader context. Very best wishes F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 9 June , 2014 Share Posted 9 June , 2014 14th Divisional Reports give 2nd Lt. C.H. Chesney Cook and 2nd Lt. W.J. Hill from 6th DCLI as wounded in December, is one of these your man?? errmm 4th or 14th Division??? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancesH Posted 9 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 9 June , 2014 Sorry Andy! Typo (or possibly just dropped off to sleep for a moment there). Yes 14th Division. And yes also, Charles Hugh Chesney Cook is my man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 9 June , 2014 Share Posted 9 June , 2014 No problems Frances. If you have the 6th DCLI diary you will see that they were shelled quite a lot on the 8/12/15. Brigade diary says:- "A certain amount of shelling of St. Jean and the D.C.L.I. trenches causing a good many casualties. The enemies artillery are getting more active." No mention of any patrols hence I would think he lost his leg due to the shelling. The D.C.L.I. had relieved the K.O.Y.L.I on the 7th. Will put a precis together for the Div and Brigade for you. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 21 February , 2020 Share Posted 21 February , 2020 Could any help with my search of the circumstances concert the death of private Joseph Edward Sherwood 1 DCLI 17581 on the 21/4/1916 . We suspect he might have been with 6 DCLI at the time of his death. Regards Ken Sherwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 21 February , 2020 Share Posted 21 February , 2020 Hi Ken, Welcome to the forum. 1 hour ago, Kenneth Sherwood said: We suspect he might have been with 6 DCLI at the time of his death I didn't see anything obvious in the main online places to suggest that. May I ask you to expand a little bit ? From the CWGC records (excluding a couple of men that passed away in the UK), only the following DCLI men appear to have died on 21.4.1916. The 6th Bn war diary for the date (Ancestry link) records 'no casualties'... Image sourced from Ancestry The death of 10538 McCarthy not being noted might be explained away by his Soldiers' Effects record (Ancestry link) which shows that he died 'in a fit'... Image sourced from Ancestry The 1st Battalion war diary (Ancestry link) though does record 2 men as having been killed... Image sourced from Ancestry It probably won't help, and would probably consist of a very few words, but what was accepted as his will is available as a black and copy, low resolution copy (£1.50) from here. As Joseph is buried in Faubourg D'Amiens Cemetery, Arras, if you don't already have an image of his gravestone, it looks like the good folk at British War Graves (link) might be able to provide you with one on a free of charge basis - apparently though they currently only have about 50% coverage. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 21 February , 2020 Share Posted 21 February , 2020 Chris I would like to thank you on behalf of my family and myself for sharing with us the information about Joseph’s demise. With what we know about the conflict and also Joseph has a name on his headstone we suspected it would be a action of this kind . It would be of great interest if there was a location for the action if you have any information.Regards Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 22 February , 2020 Share Posted 22 February , 2020 (edited) Hi Ken, 20 hours ago, Kenneth Sherwood said: It would be of great interest if there was a location for the action if you have any information. I'm not 100% sure on that, as I didn't see any specific trench map references. The Brigade HQ diary (Ancestry link) records... The Division HQ (General Staff) diary (Ancestry link) records... So, it appears then that on 21st April 1916 the 1/DCLI were in 'Sector K1'. Earlier on In the Division HQ diary there is a map (Ancestry link), which seems to show K1 and K2... All images sourced from Ancestry GRIDIRON mentioned in the Battalion diary (post #14) seems to be shown towards the bottom, right hand side of the cropped map image above. This link should open up on a trench map from October 1916 showing Roclincourt , where you can use the transparency slider to blend the map with a modern aerial view of the landscape. Regards Chris Edit: I wonder if 'J.II' in the Battalion diary is using Roman numerals, and is the same as 'J.2' on the map extract ? Edited 22 February , 2020 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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