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Lancashire Fusiliers military records: help needed


Siochain

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Dear members,

I am new to this forum and hoping that someone could help me in researching one of my ancestor’s war itineraries.

Jeremiah Madden, born in Cork in 1895 has quite a fascinating history, as it would seem that he volunteered to join the British army from 1916 to 1919, before joining the IRA during the Irish War of Independence (from 1919 to 1921).

I was very fortunate to find his military records on ancestry.com, however I’m having a hard time trying to decipher what the records say. I am also not very knowledgeable about British regiments during World War One, as Jeremiah is the only member of my family to have fought in the British army (my other relatives fought in the French army).

So far, I have been able to establish that Private Jeremiah Madden was in the 22nd Lancashire Fusiliers. But that’s about it.

I tried to attach images of the records, but the files are too heavy. I have therefore pasted the link to the records, in the hope that someone with access to ancestry.com can have a look at them.

http://interactive.ancestry.com/1219/30971_173403-00734/1256152?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.com%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dBritishArmyService%26h%3d1256152%26ti%3d0%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t63690640_p30110484418_kpidz0q3d30110484418z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t63690640_p30110484418_kpidz0q3d30110484418z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord

I would really appreciate any help that could be provided.

Thank you in advance for your kind attention,

Siochain

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Siochain

Welcome to the Forum !

Quite a clear set of papers,unlike some that I have seen with burnt edges,faint writing and watermarks!

A short run through of the salient points:

1916. 22 Jun posted to 22 (Reserve)Battalion. 30 Aug posted to 4 (Reserve)Battalion for training . 26 Nov Posted to 1 Battalion and shipped out to France. 9 Dec Posted to what looks like 14 Battalion,may be something else as a bit fuzzy. Important to discover really as he then served with that unit until 22 Aug 1918,which is when he left for the UK having received a gunshot wound to his arm on 11 Aug 1918.There follows a move to what is possibly a rehab place on 7 Oct 1918,something like CD T-----ley Park. 3 Dec 1918 posted back to 4 Battalion.

14 Jan 1919 discharged from service on completion of time. 15 Jan re-enlisted in Lancashire Fusiliers and later served with 2 Battalion at Home until discharge on 13 Nov 1919 as surplus to requirements.

Later: Noted that there didn't seem to be a 14 Battalion so we need to try to find the fuzzy number key !

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The battalion mystery may well be solved from the medal rolls. If some kind person would look them up?

The reference on the MIC is H/1/101 B38 page 8033

Service number 36010

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I think its 16th Bn. I note he was only posted to 1st Bn for a short period. I would surmise that he was posted to 1st Bn but never joined them, instead being reallocated to 16th Bn from his Infantry Base Depot.

The War Diary indicates they received four drafts of 150+ men between the 3 and 10 December 1916.

SDGW indicates 36011 was a 16th Bn man.

Rgds

Tim D

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The battalion mystery may well be solved from the medal rolls. If some kind person would look them up?

The reference on the MIC is H/1/101 B38 page 8033

Service number 36010

Ledger WO329/985 page 8033,to help that kind person !

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Thank you so much for your help !

I thought I had read something about a wound, but wasn't able to decipher that statement.

Was it normal for Irishmen to join any British regiment during the war? I would have thought that they were allocated to Irish regiments... but then again I really don't know much about that.

Many thanks

Siochain

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Siochain,

i am responding somewhat in the dark as I have not had the benefit of seeing the Ancestry records.

If his enlistment form shows a "mainland" address, ie not in Ireland, he would have been subject to conscription by the summer of 1916 and could have been posted to any British Army Regiment.

There was no conscription in Ireland.

i won't add anything further in the hope a member who has seen the record responds quickly.

Good Luck.

Steve Y

PS. My avatar is my great uncle Richard Keogh of Maryborough, Queens County (now Portlaiose, County Laois). He was wprking in Englandin 1914 when he enlisted in the Northumberland Fusiliers - albeit a Tyneside Irish Battalion. He was wounded on the Somme and killed at Arras in April 1917.

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i won't add anything further in the hope a member who has seen the record responds quickly.

His address is given as Cork

He attested at Cork

post-51028-0-12149900-1402082479_thumb.j

Craig

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Hiya,

Ref Irishmen in English regiments

If you go back to the 19th Century, many of the rolls of "English" regiments actually read like Irish parish registers. Ireland been a fertile recruiting ground for the British army before Wellington's day. There were also many Englishmen in Irish, Scots and Welsh regiments. Moving forward to the Great War, the "specialist" troops of the 10th (Irish) Division - like the Engineers and Artillery, were mainly English. Similarly however, I would be surprised if anyone could find a single battalion in an "English" regiment that did not have at least one Irishman amongst its ranks. The 4th Royal (Irish) Dragoons in particular are an interesting unit for the opposite reason, Even before the war, a huge proportion of their men seem to have been English.

Certainly as the war progressed, and particularly after conscription kicked in, the regional connections between where a recruit had originated and the county title of his regiment got more and more blurred, but it was a surprisingly long way from being clear cut in the first place.

Slainte,

Mike

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