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Remembered Today:

Driver William J Sargent, 836104, “A” Bty., 242nd Army Bde., RFA 1918.


LeoTheLad

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I have recently discovered from the burnt records (made available by Findmypast) that my great uncle, Driver William J Sargent, 836104, “A” Bty., 242nd Army Bde., Royal Field Artillery, died on 22nd October 1918. He was initially buried at Rongy, Brunehaut, Belgium (I assume that this was close to where he fell) and finally laid to rest at Lesdain Communal Cemetery, alongside four others.

I had not heard of burials taking place in communal cemeteries. Is this unusual?

I would like to find out, if possible, the events that led up to his death and generally what was happening in that area at that time. Would the book entitled Before the Echoes Die Away by NDG James be of any help in my research?

His surviving records vary in quality – many very faint and difficult to read. Does anyone know of some wizard computer software that can enhance the faint handwriting of the jpg image?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Many thanks,

David (new to the Forum).

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We are even now looking in the book for you. I dont have much on 242 as they didnt go to Italy in November 1917 when the other South Midland Brigades were moved there.

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To get further details you would need to read the war diary of 242 Brigade for 1918, This is from page 26 of *Before Endeavours Fade. Wrong - Edited to explain this is not the title cited. I was, of course, looking at Before the Echoes Die Away - as requested by the O.P. and signified in my previous post.

I very much regret this error, for we confused two similar titles and now we are back from holiday I am correcting it in the hope that no one else looking at this thread in the future will be misled by it.

"Activity at the front had increased during August (1918).

" Orders were issued that the Brigade (242) was to be transferred to 58th Division and this took effect on 12th October. The next day the Brigade came into action at Harnes, 4 miles east of Lens, in order to support an attack on the line of La Haute Deule canal which the enemy were holding but from which they withdrew on 16th October. Accordingly the Brigade moved forward to Oignies and two days later Brigade headquarters were established in La Paradise, 2 miles west of Bersee but soon moved on to Rongny. However heavy shelling of this village forced headquarters to move to Howardries although this village also received unwelcome attention from the German artillery. On 1 November A and C batteries withdrew to the wagon lines near Rumegies and on 9th B and D batteries came out of action."

Hope this helps.

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On page 183, Gunner D. W. Sargent is listed as one of the fallen on the memorial at the south side of the entrance of the drill hall at Stoney Lane, Sparkbrook, Birmingham. So he was promoted to Gunner before he was killed.

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David

Welcome to the Forum ! Great Uncle was killed in action on the day and it appears as if his A Battery received a direct hit as there are five members killed at the same time. If you look on the CWGC website for Lesdain Com. Cem. you will see a photo of the five graves. After the war some graves were re-positioned from isolated spots and integrated into other cemeteries. It is not unusual for burials into "civilian" cemeteries.

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Forgot to add about the communal cemetery. Several officers from the South Midlands Brigades are buried in Aveluy communal cemetery - the war graves people must have shifted them into a sort of annex. But we know the original graves were there as the funerals are recorded, taken by the Brigade chaplain. If people were killed near a village with a cemetery it was the obvious place to bury bodies.

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Many thanks to you both for this information. It will help considerably when I make my first visit to the cemetery and the surrounding area next month.

I obviously need to update my copy of Before Endeavours Fade as the one I have is 2003 and does not mention any of the above in its 176 pages.

Thank you once again,

David.

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To get further details you would need to read the war diary of 242 Brigade for 1918, This is from page 26 of Before Endeavours Fade.

Activity at the front had increased during August (1918).

" Orders were issued that the Brigade (242) was to be transferred to 58th Division and this took effect on 12th October. The next day the Brigade came into action at Harnes, 4 miles east of Lens, in order to support an attack on the line of La Haute Deule canal which the enemy were holding but from which they withdrew on 16th October. Accordingly the Brigade moved forward to Oignies and two days later Brigade headquarters were established in La Paradise, 2 miles west of Bersee but soon moved on to Rongny. However heavy shelling of this village forced headquarters to move to Howardries although this village also received unwelcome attention from the German artillery. On 1 November A and C batteries withdrew to the wagon lines near Rumegies and on 9th B and D batteries came out of action."

Hope this helps.

Just received my brand new Thirteenth Edition August 2010 copy of Before Endeavours Fade. Cannot find any reference to the above or to the memorial on page 183.

I now have two copies! :(

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I am sorry you have bought two copies of Before Endeavours Fade. My OH and I went to some trouble to type out for you the only reference in it to the time of action you enquired about. I suggested only that you read the unit war diaries at Kew PRO . We are not sure why you found our post so problematic but we are on holiday overseas and cannot assist you further.

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Thank you for taking the trouble to type out the reference but, as it reads, the paragraph within " " is taken from page 26 of Before Endeavours Fade, which I now discover it is not (not the Tenth or the Thirteenth editions anyway). I do not wish to appear ungrateful because I am not and I do appreciate your responses.

However, all of my family history research needs to be traceable and I need to verify every piece of information - hence the reason why I bought the latest copy of Before Endeavours Fade thinking this is the edition that you were quoting from.

Therefore, to clarify, would you please advise the edition number that you quoted from and also the chapter.

Thank you for your further assistance.

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You are right, I indeed made a mistake. I confused two books. The passage I typed out was from a history of the South. Midland Brigades and I cant cite it for you as I am overseas . Please do not buy any books at all as a result of any thing I post. I am сlearly too old for this. Moreover I never said anything about a memorial. But I do apologise.

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I have now got wi Fi and can add to my apology. Tho I have no keyboard to type well. The book my husband got me to search for you was Before. The Echoes Die Away, The Story of a Warwickshire Territorial Gunner Regiment 1892-1969 by N D G James. You will see the title is similar which is why I confused it . Please do not go and buy this book. I was trying to spare you the cost. There is a copy in the IWM library.

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  • 4 years later...

An update that is long overdue – apologies for delay. Since my last post, I have obtained a copy of the war diary of the 242nd Brigade for the period of July 1918 to October 1918 and map sheet 44 N.W. dated 15-10-18 on which I was able to plot his movements during his last days.

The war diary confirmed that on the night of 21/22 October 1918, Rongy was heavily shelled and “A” Bty received a direct hit from a 15cm (5.9inch?) shell resulting in 5 men killed and 6 wounded. Those killed were buried together in the farm of Hubert Coppez, close to where they fell. Later, in February 1920, they were exhumed and re-interred in Lesdain Communal Cemetery.

Last year (2018) we, family included, made plans to visit his grave on the 22nd October 2018 and I made contact with a local history society to enquire if any events were being held to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the deaths of these 5 men. Local commemorations are normally held each year on the 11th November so additional commemorations just 3 weeks prior to the 11th were not possible.

However, arriving at Lesdain, we were greeted not only by my contact from the local history society, but The Mayor, several other dignitaries, the headmaster of the local school together with 19 school children, several members of local history societies, local townsfolk and the local press. A change of heart resulting in an incredibly overwhelming experience with a ceremony at the graveside and concluding with a visit to the place where they died.

275_DSC_0884.JPG

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