John Evelyn THornhill Seaforth Highlanders

[bif]

I am new to the Forum. Does anyone have a photo of Lt Col (brvt) John E Thornhill, Seaforth Highlanders ?

[hazelclark]

I am new to the Forum. Does anyone have a photo of Lt Col (brvt) John E Thornhill, Seaforth Highlanders ?

Yes - I will ask on your behalf. Do you have info.about him?

Hazel

[gordon92]

See the two photos below of Thornhill. The first is a portrait and the second a group photo. In the group scene, Thornhill is standing in the back row third from the left (facing). Both photos are circa 1906.

What is your interest in Thornhill? Part of his uniform is in my collection. I have researched him extensively and so has forum member hazel clark.

[bif]

Thank you both for the interest and photos. I have the privilege of being the current caretaker of his medals. First time I've "met" him and it's a little sobering.

[gordon92]

bif,

Do you have bio information on JE Thornhill? If not, I can provide such data.

I have also sent you a PM.

Mike

[Old Owl]

Thank you both for the interest and photos. I have the privilege of being the current caretaker of his medals. First time I've "met" him and it's a little sobering.

Hi Bif,

Interestingly I have his brother's medals: Lieut George Robert Thornhill, M.C., MID, 2nd Bn (The Buffs) East Kent Regt., who was Kia 23/10/14 and awarded the M.C.and MID posthumously, L.G. Feb., 1915.

Robert

[gordon92]

Hi Bif,

Interestingly I have his brother's medals: Lieut George Robert Thornhill, M.C., MID, 2nd Bn (The Buffs) East Kent Regt., who was Kia 23/10/14 and awarded the M.C.and MID posthumously, L.G. Feb., 1915.

Robert

Robert,

Do you know Dave Jarrett of the St. Neots Historical Society? I think he told me about you some time ago while I was conversing with Dave about the Thornhills.

Mike

[bif]

Mike & Robert, thanks for the replies. Dave, what's a PM & how do I use/open it ? ( I said I was new ). Robert, what a history this family must have. Was George Thornhill in service prior to the war ? bif

[gordon92]

bif,

PM = Personal Message

Go the top of any Forum page and, on the right, you will see an envelope icon. Click on that icon, and you will be able to read, reply, and initiate Personal Messages (PMs) to any forum member.

Mike

[hazelclark]

Mike & Robert, thanks for the replies. Dave, what's a PM & how do I use/open it ? ( I said I was new ). Robert, what a history this family must have. Was George Thornhill in service prior to the war ? bif

You may be able to read it on your email if you are notified of personal messages. If not, you can click on the top right of the Forum screen where there is a little envelope.and that will allow you to read it.

H

[Old Owl]

Mike & Robert, thanks for the replies. Dave, what's a PM & how do I use/open it ? ( I said I was new ). Robert, what a history this family must have. Was George Thornhill in service prior to the war ? bif

Hi Bif,

No, he had no war service prior to WW1 but he did join the 1/5th Bedfordshire Regt. circa 1911 and was gazetted as a University candidate, 2nd Lieutenant, The Buffs on 20th August,1913 following his graduation from Trinity College, Cambridge. He was educated at Malvern College 1903-1909.

He was posted to 'A' Coy, 1st Bn The Buffs, then in Ireland, reporting there on 19th Sept.,1913. He was promoted to Lieutenant on 5th July,1914. He landed in France with his battalion on 9th Sept.,1914.

"On 9 a.m. on 23rd October,1914, 'A' Coy, including Thornhill's platoon was sent up in support of the 2nd Bn York and Lancs, to reconnoitre a gap in the line. The enemy had pushed the York and Lancs out of some trenches, so to clarify the situation, Thornhill and his platoon pushed forward from the Touquet-La Bouteillerie road by some 'dongas' running south. There appeared to be no enemy in the gap and on approaching one of the trenches, Thornhill and his men rushed forward to secure it. Thornhill and ten of his men were shot down at 15 yards range by a hidden machine-gun post. Only 10 of the party returned unhurt bringing 7 of the wounded with them, but were obliged to leave Thornhill, who had actually fallen into the enemy trench, and a number of others."

Thornhill's body was never recovered and he is commemorated by name on the Ploegsteert Memorial to the missing, Belgium.

He was the younger brother of Lt.Col.J.E.Thornhill, DSO.

Hope this is of interest,

Robert

[Old Owl]

Robert,

Do you know Dave Jarrett of the St. Neots Historical Society? I think he told me about you some time ago while I was conversing with Dave about the Thornhills.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Yes, I have been in contact on a couple of occasions with Dave and his wife, and I did supply them with some information and photographs relating to G.R.Thornhill.

Robert

[gordon92]

Hi Mike,

Yes, I have been in contact on a couple of occasions with Dave and his wife, and I did supply them with some information and photographs relating to G.R.Thornhill.

Robert

Robert,

Regarding G. R. Thornhill, I think I recall that there was some correspondence between the father, Francis Evelyn, and the War Office that originally it was thought that George had only been wounded and possibly remained alive as a POW. Do you have any record of this?

Mike

[Old Owl]

Robert,

Regarding G. R. Thornhill, I think I recall that there was some correspondence between the father, Francis Evelyn, and the War Office that originally it was thought that George had only been wounded and possibly remained alive as a POW. Do you have any record of this?

Mike

Hi Mike,

Yes, I believe that because he was reported 'wounded and missing', that the family nurtured the hope that he had been taken prisoner by the Germans and that he was indeed still alive.

The St.Neots Advertiser, 6/11/14:

"Mr F.E.Thornhill, Crosshall Lodge, heard on Wednesday that his son Lieut.G.R.Thornhill, was missing as well as wounded, so it is thought that he is a prisoner."

In a letter to the War Office dated 30th November,1915, his father wrote:

"---I regret to say that I have had no further news of my son Lieut.G.R.Thornhill, East Kent Regiment. Personally I beg to say that considering the number of officers missing and still unaccounted for that I have not given up hope, as all the private accounts I had at the time agreed in saying that when last seen he was alive."

As you can see this sort of forlorn hope was quite understandable under the circumstances, but in reality he was probably already dead when he fell into the German trench or at the very least mortally wounded. Such was the fate of many of these gallant young men during WW1.

Hope this is helpful,

Robert

[gordon92]

Hi Mike,

Yes, I believe that because he was reported 'wounded and missing', that the family nurtured the hope that he had been taken prisoner by the Germans and that he was indeed still alive.

The St.Neots Advertiser, 6/11/14:

"Mr F.E.Thornhill, Crosshall Lodge, heard on Wednesday that his son Lieut.G.R.Thornhill, was missing as well as wounded, so it is thought that he is a prisoner."

In a letter to the War Office dated 30th November,1915, his father wrote:

"---I regret to say that I have had no further news of my son Lieut.G.R.Thornhill, East Kent Regiment. Personally I beg to say that considering the number of officers missing and still unaccounted for that I have not given up hope, as all the private accounts I had at the time agreed in saying that when last seen he was alive."

As you can see this sort of forlorn hope was quite understandable under the circumstances, but in reality he was probably already dead when he fell into the German trench or at the very least mortally wounded. Such was the fate of many of these gallant young men during WW1.

Hope this is helpful,

Robert

Very informative, Robert. Thank you. John Evelyn's story is not quite so heroic but still in the same mold. John E was sickly throughout his career, but I have yet to discover the exact ailment that held him back periodically. He likely died in Oct 1918 of the Spanish flu. Did you run across any medical info on John Evelyn in your research?

Mike

[Old Owl]

Very informative, Robert. Thank you. John Evelyn's story is not quite so heroic but still in the same mold. John E was sickly throughout his career, but I have yet to discover the exact ailment that held him back periodically. He likely died in Oct 1918 of the Spanish flu. Did you run across any medical info on John Evelyn in your research?

Mike

Hi Mike,

I have never had reason to carry out any in depth research on J.E.T., but I have always assumed that he died from some other cause rather than from wounds received in action. I know that he died in Gibraltar which does seem a little strange, but I suppose that his death certificate would point to the cause of death?

Sadly, I doubt that his WW1 service papers will be available, this due to the fact that the service papers of most WW1 officers with previous war service were 'weeded' and destroyed by some bright spark at the PRO in the 1970's--apparently!!! May he hang his head in shame!!

Sorry not to have been of more assistance with your query.

Robert

[gordon92]

Hi Mike,

I have never had reason to carry out any in depth research on J.E.T., but I have always assumed that he died from some other cause rather than from wounds received in action. I know that he died in Gibraltar which does seem a little strange, but I suppose that his death certificate would point to the cause of death?

Sadly, I doubt that his WW1 service papers will be available, this due to the fact that the service papers of most WW1 officers with previous war service were 'weeded' and destroyed by some bright spark at the PRO in the 1970's--apparently!!! May he hang his head in shame!!

Sorry not to have been of more assistance with your query.

Robert

Robert,

The St. Neots Advertiser indicated that JET was taken ill aboard ship while in transit to Egypt. He was dropped off in Gibraltar where he died in hospital 2 Oct 1918. Both before and during the War there were periods when he was granted medical leave for several months and placed on half pay. One of these instances occurred in Jan 1916 when he had been awarded a DSO for his command of the 8th Seaforth. His service record is definitely not available. Thanks for your thoughts on the topic.

Mike

[stuart714]

Robert,

The St. Neots Advertiser indicated that JET was taken ill aboard ship while in transit to Egypt. He was dropped off in Gibraltar where he died in hospital 2 Oct 1918. Both before and during the War there were periods when he was granted medical leave for several months and placed on half pay. One of these instances occurred in Jan 1916 when he had been awarded a DSO for his command of the 8th Seaforth. His service record is definitely not available. Thanks for your thoughts on the topic.

Mike

Mike

am researching Seaforth Officers from WW1, would you have the whole article from the St. Neots Advertiser? Always wondered how he became to buried in Gibraltar.

I have a few items on SE Thornhill but all what you probably have already ie LG, obits from 2 scots newspapers, Cheltenham register.

Stuart

[Old Owl]

Robert,

The St. Neots Advertiser indicated that JET was taken ill aboard ship while in transit to Egypt. He was dropped off in Gibraltar where he died in hospital 2 Oct 1918. Both before and during the War there were periods when he was granted medical leave for several months and placed on half pay. One of these instances occurred in Jan 1916 when he had been awarded a DSO for his command of the 8th Seaforth. His service record is definitely not available. Thanks for your thoughts on the topic.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I expect that we may never know the exact cause of death, but it would appear that it was through some sort of medical condition rather than wounds.

Glad to have been of some assistance.

Robert

[gordon92]

Mike

am researching Seaforth Officers from WW1, would you have the whole article from the St. Neots Advertiser? Always wondered how he became to buried in Gibraltar.

I have a few items on SE Thornhill but all what you probably have already ie LG, obits from 2 scots newspapers, Cheltenham register.

Stuart

Stuart,

I am afraid I do not have the original article. I just have this quote from the newspaper 25 Oct 1918: 'He was on his way to join the Egyptian Expeditionary Force as a General Staff Officer, when he was struck down by severe illness on board ship and died in hospital in Gibraltar.'

I have everything on Thornhill from the LG. However, I do not have the obits from the 2 Scots newspapers you mention nor the one from the Cheltenham register. Could you provide these?

Mike

[stuart714]

Reported in The Glasgow Herald of 23^rd October 1918 of the following:

‘Notes on Officers. Seaforth Highlanders. Lieutenant Colonel J E Thornhill, D.S.O – Died. Lieutenant Colonel Thornhill, was born in 1880. He entered the Seaforths in 1899, served in the South African War (decorated) and in the present war received the D.S.O in 1916.’

Reported in The Scotsman of 30^th October 1918 of the following:

‘Biographical Notes. Lieut-Col John Evelyn Thornhill D.S.O; Seaforth Highlanders (died) was born in 1880, and joined the Seaforth Highlanders in 1899. He served in the South African War, and during the present was mentioned in dispatches, and received the D.S.O in 1916. Between 1905 and 1909 he was superintendent of Gymnasium on the Scottish Command.’

Additional Information - Lt.-Col. John Evelyn Thornhill, Seaforth Highlanders. Born on 7 Apr 80, the son of Francis Emlyn Thornhill, Esq., Rathangan House, Rathangan, Co. Kildare. Educated at Cheltenham College from Jan 1895 to Jul 1898 and at RMC, Sandhurst in 1898. Commissioned into the Seaforth Highlanders in 1899. Promoted Captain in 1906. Served in South African War from 1900 to 1902 (two medals and five clasps) During Great War was Brevet Lt.-Col., twice mentioned in despatches and DSO. Died at Gibraltar on 2 Oct 18. Source: Cheltenham College Register 1841-1927.

Stuart

[gordon92]

Reported in The Glasgow Herald of 23^rd October 1918 of the following:

‘Notes on Officers. Seaforth Highlanders. Lieutenant Colonel J E Thornhill, D.S.O – Died. Lieutenant Colonel Thornhill, was born in 1880. He entered the Seaforths in 1899, served in the South African War (decorated) and in the present war received the D.S.O in 1916.’

Reported in The Scotsman of 30^th October 1918 of the following:

‘Biographical Notes. Lieut-Col John Evelyn Thornhill D.S.O; Seaforth Highlanders (died) was born in 1880, and joined the Seaforth Highlanders in 1899. He served in the South African War, and during the present was mentioned in dispatches, and received the D.S.O in 1916. Between 1905 and 1909 he was superintendent of Gymnasium on the Scottish Command.’

Additional Information - Lt.-Col. John Evelyn Thornhill, Seaforth Highlanders. Born on 7 Apr 80, the son of Francis Emlyn Thornhill, Esq., Rathangan House, Rathangan, Co. Kildare. Educated at Cheltenham College from Jan 1895 to Jul 1898 and at RMC, Sandhurst in 1898. Commissioned into the Seaforth Highlanders in 1899. Promoted Captain in 1906. Served in South African War from 1900 to 1902 (two medals and five clasps) During Great War was Brevet Lt.-Col., twice mentioned in despatches and DSO. Died at Gibraltar on 2 Oct 18. Source: Cheltenham College Register 1841-1927.

Stuart

Many thanks, Stuart.