Irish death certificates - help please

[BillyH]

I ordered a death certificate on-line from the UK General Records Office a while ago.

It was for a British soldier who died whilst training at the Curragh near Dublin in 1916.

The GRO took my money but had to refund it when they came back with the following response :

A search has been made in our indexes but no trace has been found of an entry with the details you supplied. We suggest that you contact

Republic of Ireland – Tel: 090 6632900 www.groireland.ie/aboutus.htm

I have just tried the above website but they only seem to supply death certificates from 1924 onwards.

Can anyone offer any advice, suggestions or assistance please?

Thanks, BillyH.

[kildaremark]

There should be no difficulty in getting a death cert from the GRO in Ireland 1864 to the present. What was his name as the indexes are on line on a number of the popular genealogy websites. https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/General-Register-Office.aspx Registration district for the Curragh will be Naas.

He may also be buried at the military cemetery on the Curragh. I can get a photo if that is the case.

Mark

[museumtom]

Hello Billy. If you post the name perhaps some of the pals can help.

[BillyH]

Thanks to Mark & Tom,

He is Frank Leslie Lonsdale (Lancashire Hussars Yeomanry) : "Died" 5th or 6th June 1916

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/662907/LONSDALE,%20FRANK%20LESLIE

He is my great uncle and so I have his personal details, but I am curious to know what he died of. Just basic details would suffice (I don't really fancy paying 20 Euros for the full copy, even if it was available).

When trying to order his death certificate on the Irish GRO site I found that the drop down menu only goes back to 1924.

He is buried in the Curragh Military Cemetery, and I do already have a photo of his grave. It is not a CWGC headstone and I attach a copy here, it may be made of granite so it is difficult to read - I doubt it will be readable here?

However the inscription includes "Erected by the Officers, W.O's, N.C.O's & Men of the Regiment"

Thanks for any help either of you can offer.

BillyH.

[museumtom]

PM sent

[corisande]

The Irish GRO site is a bit difficult to fathom, but if you go to this page and download the application form, you will see you have the option of just getting a photocopy for €4 (rather than €20 for the legal document) . I have had lots of these €4 copies and for most researchers, they are perfectly adequate

[BillyH]

Apologies for the delay,

Thanks to Corisande for the link, I did try to get the 4 euro copy but the drop down menu only appeared to go back as far as 1924?

However, museumtom has come to the rescue with the inquest on his death published in the Kildare Observer, this was far better than a death certificate and made very sad reading (verdict suicide). Huge thanks to Tom.

BillyH.

[museumtom]

Happy to help.

[museumtom]

I have been going through these Irish death certificates, 1914-1921,for the past few months, aided by ss002d6252. It will take another few months to complete the trawl, and another year to research them. The criteria for inclusion by the CWGC is not the same as the one I use so there will be many additions to the Irish war dead. Here are e few observations.

It soon becomes apparent that there are very many IFCP cases here, and they will be sent to Terry Denhem at the end of the trawl.

The oldest civilians are usually farmers wives. Farmer can be listed as landowner or cotter, depending who the registrar is. Babies were the second most common deaths and would have died within the first few weeks of life, two that stick out are 'death from congenital syphlis' and a 'foundling' who died from 'want of breast milk.'

 

The ADRIC (Auxiliaries and Black and Tans) are usually listed on separate pages to the R.I.C. that died with them. I came across a lot of soldiers who were shot, 1919-1921, but if they were regulars or Black and tans I dont know, all I found were listed as officers or soldiers.

 

Again it is obvious that someone was reviewing listings and making observations, and these were circled on the certs, but they were never changed. It would cover incorrect description of death, information listed in the wrong box, etc. It also showed that women were properties of their husbands. They were listed as wife of a farmer, widow of a sailor etc, but a farmer is never listed as husband of.......

 

There plenty of unidentified bodies of sailors and it shows how these were 'caused by...name...to be buried at..burial location. Sometimes they were identifiable, a lot were unclothed, others were only identified by their uniform but without a name. Fishermen who were killed, such as the crew of the 'Pretty Polly' sunk by German submarines 

were washed up on the beaches and are not included in the CWGC, why beats me, they list blitz casualties but not these.

 

Common deaths were, T.B., Pneumonia, Phthisis, Syncope, Malaria, and Influenza.

 

This trawl reminds me of a remote controlled submersible going over a shipwreck site with nothing touched. It is all there to be researched and a resource that is vital.

 

Well that is my take on it anyway.

 Kind regards.

 Tom.

[David_Underdown]

3 hours ago, museumtom said:

Fishermen who were killed, such as the crew of the 'Pretty Polly' sunk by German submarines 

were washed up on the beaches and are not included in the CWGC, why beats me, they list blitz casualties but not these.

 

 

The Royal Charter was extended in the Second World War to include civilian casualties, they are not covered in the First World War.  However, merchant mariners whose death was attributable to enemey action were included, so it may just be that these deaths were not reported to IWGC for inclusion (particularly if they predated its formatoin in 1917).

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Indeed, if you look at the number of casualties from the sinking of the RMS Leinster on 10/10/1918, a total of over 560.

Yet only a fraction are comemmorated by CWGC, as the bulk of the casualties were civilians.