51st GB Gordon Highlanders

[Icox67]

Having just downloaded my great uncle's will from June 1918, I note that it states that he was then part of the 51st GB Gordon Highlanders. Can anyone clarify what the GB meant? (I've assumed its something to do with the training prior to going overseas). He appears to have been based in Thetford at the time.

(He ended up in the 1st Bn Gordon Highlanders.

Also, his regimental no on his will (28166) was changed to S/42404. Was that normal practice so late in the war?

Thanks in advance.

Iain

Image added.

[Guest]

Could you post a pic of the " GB " bit?

It would make sense if HD, but GB?

Mike

[Icox67]

Here is the image of the Will. Definitely GB.

[Icox67]

Blooming website and attachment issues once again...3rd time lucky or its a new topic.

[Guest]

Ah! good old LLT Graduated Battalion LLT

51st (Graduated) Battalion
Up to 27 October 1917, this was known as 202nd Graduated Battalion and had no regimental affiliation. Before that it had been 38th Battalion of the Training Reserve and up to September 1916 had been the 11th (Reserve) Battalion of the Black Watch. A training unit based at Cromer, it was part of 191st Brigade in 64th (2nd Highland) Division. In April 1918 moved to Thetford.

Mike

[Icox67]

Thanks Skipman, that explains a lot. Many thanks!

My question on the change in Serial Number remains, however. Would soldiers in a Graduated Battalion be given different numbers once they moved to a front line battalion? (seems like a lot of unnecessary admin to me).

Iain

[Guest]

Not sure about your renumbering question. The TF were re-numbered in 1917, but not sure about 28166 being re-numbered S/42404 The originial number may be a Trb (training Battalion) number, but I don't know enough about that. Someone might be able to help further. If they don't answer here. might be worth starting a new thread something like

" Number change query 28166-S/42404 "

Mike

[carolm]

Hello Iain,

I can't give you a definitive answer to the number change, but can tell you that soldiers coming from the Graduate Battalions to the 1st or 2nd Bn Gordon Highlanders were issued with a new number in the S/42OOO range. Now, there may be exceptions, but I have found enough to show that it was at least common practice. The normal progression on enlistment prior to posting to a fighting unit appears to be 1. Training Bn (or Young Soldiers Bn) ; 2. Graduate Bn. They had a Training Res number which was changed when they went to the Grad Bn.

Some examples:

Coleman, David Scott enlisted 22/10/1917 - 42nd TR BN ; 51st Grad Bn.(No S/23869) 1st Bn (S/42100) - KiA 1/6/1918

Delworth, James enlisted 27/10/1917. To 53rd YS Bn -3/11/1917 ; 51st Grad Bn (No S/23877)on 16/3/1918. 1st Bn (S/42110) To France 10/5/1918. KiA 30/8/1918

Findlayson, Robert enlisted 1/11/1917 - To 42nd TR (number TR/493) ; 51st Grad Bn - (No S/23888) -16/3/1918. 1st Bn (S/42119)To France 11/5/1918. DoW 29/8/1918

Gibson, James M enlisted 1/11/1917 - TR Bn ; 51st Grad Bn (No. S/23898) 1st Bn (S/42130) KiA 23/9/1918

So Alexander's numbers fit in to this pattern.

I can't work out why the numbers were changed as the S/20000 numbers seemed to be unique and so shouldn't have resulted in duplication in any of the battalions.

I have found a number of men in 5th battalion who retained their previous number from the Grad Battn - S/22770 (Robertson) and S/22781 Watson. I haven't looked in to it in enough detail to say whether all soldiers moving from the Grad Bn to a Territorial Bn kept the number.

I can say that prior to March 1917 when Territorial numbers changed, men moving from Territorial Bns to Regular ones were issued with S/40000 numbers.(I have hundreds of examples of this). Post 1917, men with six digit Territorial numbers retained these number when transferred to any other Gordon battalion.

Cheers,

Carolyn

[carolm]

Hello again,

Forgot to mention this, but are you aware of Alexander's earlier underage enlistment in 1914 (he would have been 16.)? It looks like he enlisted at the same time as his elder brother Thomas who was killed in 1916.

Carolyn

[Icox67]

Hi Carolyn.

Many thanks for the comprehensive answer on the numbering. Until I'd seen Alex' will, I hadn't realised he'd had a different number before the S/42404 number was allocated. As always, it creates further questions:-

1.Can I make a reasonable assumption that he would have enlisted automatically on his 18th birthday (31 October 1917), and been sent to a Training Battalion, before being sent to the (Graduated) battalion?

2. Were the soldiers in the Graduated battalion usually sent overseas in drafts, to reinforce the front line battalions (in Alex' case, the 1st Bn)?

Yes, I had seen Alex' underage enlistment papers on Ancestry ,and thank you for mentioning them. These seem to be the only ones that have survived. He was 14yr and 10 months when he enlisted in Sept 1914 (at the same time as his elder brother), and was discharged for being under age in Feb 1916, after seeing action at Loos. Two years later he'd reach 18 years old and was automatically enlisted. He was wounded in early October 1918, and died on 25th October, 2 weeks before the end of the war, and 6 days shy of his 19th birthday - Quite tragic!

Many thanks.

[hazelclark]

Having just downloaded my great uncle's will from June 1918, I note that it states that he was then part of the 51st GB Gordon Highlanders. Can anyone clarify what the GB meant? (I've assumed its something to do with the training prior to going overseas). He appears to have been based in Thetford at the time.

(He ended up in the 1st Bn Gordon Highlanders.

Also, his regimental no on his will (28166) was changed to S/42404. Was that normal practice so late in the war?

Thanks in advance.

Iain

Image added.

Ian, my Uncle Robert's number was also changed when he went to France. I suspect it was changed when going to a regular Bn. Will have to check out the Thetford bit. I think we have had this discussion before, but it he sounds like he and Robert were in the same bunch as Robert is #42119.

Hazel