Lancashire Fusilier, unknown 2nd Lieutenant, photo.

[nsaspdin]

This officer is a Second Lieutenant in the Lancashire Fusiliers in 1915. I do not know who it is, but it is likely that he was a family friend or cousin/nephew etc. of my ancestors. The photo was in my grandmother’s collection, and my grandmother and her parents came from Manchester, where they were connected with family names Wright, Gould, Atherton and of course others for whom I do not have family names.

I have this good quality photo, but no other knowledge of him was ever passed to me from my grandmother or mother. It suggests, but not conclusively, that he may have died in 1914-18.

Research I have carried out show that the following Lancashire Fusilier Lieutenants had the given name ‘Bernard’, and there is a reasonable possibility that this Bernard is one of them. 3 of them have strong Manchester connections from their birth registration districts.

Lieutenant Bernard Horner (Died March 5 1917)

Second Lieutenant John Bernard Rowland Ellison

Second Lieutenant Cecil Bernard Richmond

Second Lieutenant Geoffrey Bernard Vores (Died June 4 1915)

Lieutenant Bernard Richard Hawksey (Died September 28 1918)

Second Lieutenant Maurice Bernard Gill

I have posted this at GWF in the outside hope that one day you may chance across this post when researching one of these men. If you do please contact me. My email is aspdin@gmail.com

Many thanks.

Nigel

[Kitchener's Bugle]

Nigel, it just so happened that I was in Bury on Saturday at the Fusilier Museum------sods law I know but I would have taken that in for you and asked for some help!

[Langdon]

Yes could be a place rather than a person. But I'd go for a family member writing the forename, rather than the officer writing the location - but who knows? I think the fainter writing is the photographer. I've looked for place names - how about Bois-Bernard, Pas de Calais, destroyed during the war. I can't find anything closer.

[IPT]

Sorry Langdon.

I deleted my post questioning whether it was "Bernard", as I couldn't make my mind up.

Didn't mean to leave you stranded!

[johnboy]

From your list I would think that the most obvious one is Lieutenant Bernard Horner (Died March 5 1917)

He is the only one shown with Bernard as a first name. If of course it is Bernard and not another name.

Is there anything on the reverse?

[Loader]

With a name, date of death & rank maybe a search of newspapers aroung the date would have a noticve of his death & a photo to see if it mathces. Worth a look. Good luck & keep posting as you continue the search. ALso helps as he's an officer, maybe better chance of photo .

[John_Hartley]

Nigel

Looking at Horner's write-up on my Stockport website, I think the local newspaper ran an obituary for him. That may well have a photo.

The Local Heritage Library has an archive of soldiers' obits and I'd suggest you give them a ring and ask if they'll send you a copy - they're usually happy to do so, particularly when the enquirer doesnt live in the area . Phone number is 0161 474 4530.

John

[PhilB]

From your list I would think that the most obvious one is Lieutenant Bernard Horner (Died March 5 1917)

He is the only one shown with Bernard as a first name. If of course it is Bernard and not another name.

Is there anything on the reverse?

Bernard Horner was a TF officer in the 2/8th Bn - wouldn`t this show with a T on his uniform?

[nsaspdin]

Thank you John. I have written to the Local Heritage Library just now and will let you know the result. I will go up there if need be. I actually found an image of Bernard Horner's father, James, timber merchant, on line at the Local Heritage Library site. Not that it adds much at this moment in time.

[nsaspdin]

Yes...thank you. The excellent web site of John Hartley, who posted above, has his father's business address, see:

http://www.stockport1914-1918.co.uk/soldier.php?name_id=1323

But of course we don't know it is indeed Horner as yet.

Nigel

[nsaspdin]

As a result of writing to the Stockport Local Heritage Library, and getting a very fast and detailed response, I believe I have cracked this one rather too quickly! They suggested Bernard Harold Hartley, and although I had seen him as a candidate and 'remembered' him on the IWM site, he strangely dropped off my remembered list and so did not make it to the list of possibles. But someone at the Library had been preparing material for a WW1 Centenary exhibition, and this officer was fresh in their mind. I have taken the material they have sent me and come to an almost certain conclusion that it is indeed Hartley.

I have discovered that we share the same ancestry which goes back to Robert Harlow of Ashbourne, (c.1779-1828), my great-great-great-grandfather, probably the great-great-grandfather of Bernard Harold Hartley. His mother was born Eleanor Kinch Harlow, circa 1866.

In view of this link, and other links that now fall into place, in particular photographs in my grandmother's album of a house named 'Ashleigh' at 134 Stockport Road, Marple, where census returns show Bernard to have been resident at the 1901 census, it seems it is almost certain that this is the Bernard in the photograph, and explains why the photograph of Bernard was in my grandmother's papers, as they were distant cousins. I also have other miscellaneous material relating to the Harlow family retained by my grandmother.

[johnboy]

Top result.

[Lawsyd]

Nigel, it just so happened that I was in Bury on Saturday at the Fusilier Museum------sods law I know but I would have taken that in for you and asked for some help!

Sadly, nobody from the Family History Unit of The Fusilier Museum is available on a Saturday. The best you could have hoped for is to ask one of the reception staff in the Tourist Information Centre to take details for contacting by the Family History Unit during the 'normal' working week.

[nsaspdin]

Sadly, nobody from the Family History Unit of The Fusilier Museum is available on a Saturday. The best you could have hoped for is to ask one of the reception staff in the Tourist Information Centre to take details for contacting by the Family History Unit during the 'normal' working week.

Thanks. But I think the identification is concluded. Too much has fallen into place linking Bernard Harold Hartley to the image I started this post with, a newly discovered distant cousin that would certainly have appeared in my grandmothers and great grandmothers albums. What is more I have made a link to his first cousin also, Donald Harlow Budenberg, Manchester Regiment, who also died aged 21, in 1918. Sadly I also found an image of them at the Hartley family home in Marple, south of Manchester, circa 1905. I think Bernard is driving, and Donald leading the donkey, but may change my mind when better and more confirmed images of Budenberg as an officer surface.

[John_Hartley]

Nigel

I've a photo of Budenberg (drop me a PM with your email and I'll whizz it off to you). You'll have seen my website write-up for him, I presume, which also notes the friendship between him and Hartley (no relation to me that I know of).

John