"Blood thicker than water" - Kaiser Wilhelm II

[Guest AnneM]

Hello all,

Perhaps a strange question, but it bothers me for quite a while.. Perhaps some of you know more about it...

Somewhere I read that the German Kaiser Wilhelm II used the proverb "Blut ist dicker als wasser" (Blood is thicker than water) when he visited England somewhere around 1908-1910...(?) He used the phrase in a public speech to show that his family ties with the English Royal Family were stronger than anything else in the world and that, though he was building a strong navy (in competition with Britain), he never would attack the British.

Is this information true or does any of you have other information about this proverb and the use of it by Wilhelm II or by others (perhaps even British people???) during WWI??

I'm asking this because of the fact that a Dutch writer used the proverb in an article that he wrote against the war in 1914. Apparently this Dutch writer "quotes" Wilhelm II sarcastically. Unfortunately, I can't understand the article without knowing more about the circumstances under which Wilhelm II used the phrase..

Thanks in advance for any of your comments.

Annemarie

[Jonathan Saunders]

I believe the Kaiser did say this but I cannot give you a source -which doesnt help you. However it is also well known that whilst Wilhelm much admired his Grandmother, Queen Victoria, he found his Uncle, Edward VII, contemptable.

[robbie]

Here is some info from Ask Geeves on the origins of this expression:

"This proverb on the bonds of family and common ancestry first appeared in the medieval German beast epic 'Reinecke Fuch' (c. 1130 'Reynald the Fox') by Heinrich der Glichezaere, whose words in English read, 'Kin-blood is not spoiled by water.' In 1412, the English priest John Lydgate observed in 'Troy Book,' 'For naturelly blod will ay of knde/ Draw vn-to blod, wher he may it fynd.' By 1670, the modern version was included in John Ray's collected 'Proverbs,' and later appeared in Sir Walter Scott's novel 'Guy Mannering' (1815) and in English reformer Thomas Hughes's 'Tom Brown's School Days' (1857). In 1859, a U.S. Navy commodore also quoted the proverb in a letter explaining why he had gone to the aid of a British fleet during a battle with the Chinese that year. More recently, Aldous Huxley's 'Nineth Philosopher's Song' (1920) gave the saying quite a different turn with 'Blood, as all men know, than water's thicker/ But water's wider, thank the Lord, than blood. From "Wise Words and Wives' Tales: The Origins, Meanings and Time-Honored Wisdom of Proverbs and Folk Sayings Olde and New" by Stuart Flexner and Doris Flexner (Avon Books, New York, 1993).

2. "Relatives stick together; one will do more for relation than for others. A similar expression in German dates from the 12th century, but in English it seems to have been passed on verbally until the early 19th century when it appeared in print, in 1815, in Sir Walter Scott's 'Guy Mannering'" 'Weel - Blud's thicker than water - she's welcome to the cheeses.'" From "The Dictionary of Cliches" by James Rogers (Ballantine Books, New York, 1985).

3. "Relationships within the family are stronger than any other kind. The saying was first cited in John Lydgate's 'Troy Book' (c. 1412). Appeared in J. Ray's collection of proverbs in 1670. First attested in the United States in 'Journal of Athabasca Department' (1821)." From "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" (1996) by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996).

Robbie

[Guest AnneM]

Thanks to you both for your interesting replies!

Aldous Huxley's quote ("'Blood, as all men know, than water's thicker/ But water's wider, thank the Lord, than blood.") is brilliant... and in the case of Wilhelm II very appropriate, unfortunately...

[duckman]

AnneMarie,

There is a description of the incident here. The speech was made at the Guildhall in November(?) 1907. Can't find anything else at the moment, but will post here in a couple of days when I have checked my sources further.

[Guest Pete Wood]

In the 1907 Guildhall speech, the term 'Blood is thicker than water' was actually on a banner in large letters. So it would seem to be a term that Wilhelm (or someone else) had used earlier.

Wilhelm noticed the phrase and commented on it:

[Guest Pete Wood]

This is the earliest reference I can find to the Kaiser and the term (as reported in The Times, Monday, Jun 15, 1896; pg. 11):

[Guest AnneM]

Duckman and Racing Teapots,

I'm speechless! How can I thank you? This is exactly the information I was looking for. I did know something about the proverb being printed on a banner, but I never knew the exact story! This really makes my day. Thank you so much for putting so much effort in it!

And Racing Teapots, I really appreciate it that you took the time to search for and upload two articles. This is great! Was the first article also taken from The Times?

It's obvious the proverb "blood is thicker than water" is interesting not only because of the family-thing ("blood"). The sentence gets a deeper meaning when you connect the "water" to Wilhelm's wish to build a more impressive fleet than Britain.

By the way: the Dutch writer I was referring to (Alphons Diepenbrock, he was one of Holland's leading composers at the time) also used the proverb to express his astonishment and anger about all German Parties (even the socialists and the catholics!) voting for War in 1914 (the so called "Burgfrieden"). The ties to one's country ("blood") were obviously more important than one's ideology ("water"). So it was no "proletarians of alle countries, unite!" for the German socialists in 1914. Their nationalism won over their ideology.

Well, I'm gonna take the time know to read your information more thoroughly! Thanks again and I hope to read from you again soon.

Annemarie

[duckman]

Good Job, RT,

I should have known I was wasting my time checking the "London Illustrated News!"

D'OH!