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Remembered Today:

Trial by Fire: Command and the BEF in 1914


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If anyone has read this book I would be very grateful for any views. The content looks extremely well researched if the end note are anything to go by.

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Hi

I did read 'Trial by Fire' when it first came out (2003), which is a bit long ago to give a detailed view of it now. However, it was very interesting at the time. Research may have moved on as well and I may well re-read it after reading 'Stemming the Tide - Officers and Leadership in the British Expeditionary Force 1914', which is a series of essays that cover the same period as 'Trial by Fire'. it is edited by Spencer Jones (Helion, 2013), it was the runner up in the latest Templer Medal award. Although I have to finish my present reading before starting it.

Mike

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Hi

I did read 'Trial by Fire' when it first came out (2003), which is a bit long ago to give a detailed view of it now. However, it was very interesting at the time. Research may have moved on as well and I may well re-read it after reading 'Stemming the Tide - Officers and Leadership in the British Expeditionary Force 1914', which is a series of essays that cover the same period as 'Trial by Fire'. it is edited by Spencer Jones (Helion, 2013), it was the runner up in the latest Templer Medal award. Although I have to finish my present reading before starting it.

Mike

Thanks Mike... Anything revealing about Smith-Dorrien? Particularly in 1914 around Le Cateau?

MG

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Thanks Mike... Anything revealing about Smith-Dorrien? Particularly in 1914 around Le Cateau?

MG

In 'Stemming the Tide' there is a chapter on him "A Commander of Rare and Unusual Coolness": General Sir Horace Lockwood Smith-Dorrien. By Spencer Jones and Steven J. Corvi. In 'Trial by Fire' there are quite a few pages that mention him. As I mentioned I have not got the time to read it at present (especially when I have a back log of my own writing to do as well), but a quick glance it looks quite good.

Mike

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Thanks Mike... Anything revealing about Smith-Dorrien? Particularly in 1914 around Le Cateau?

MG

Martin

The chapter on S-D is only 20 pages and is well worth a read as it does give a fairly detailed account of his 'gamble' at Le Cateau. As you know I'm no expert on the military side of things but I've been quite surprised that no-one has referenced this book in the discussions on your Le Cateau thread as Jones is one of the top current chaps on 1914 and the book has been widely reviewed and praised on the Forum and beyond

David

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Martin

I would echo David's comments. And I think you would appreciate the chapters on COs and Coy Comds.

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Martin,

Trial by Fire doesn't go into much detail assessing Le Cateau. Essentially, Gardner says Smith-Dorrien had no option but to fight at Le Cateau, given the information presented to him by Allenby, that French believed S-D's decision would see the destruction of II Corps, and decided to save I Corps. "Thus, instead of bringing the two corps back together, the commander-in-chief resolved to salvage I Corps... " In the end he writes "The fact that they [iI Corps] had been left to fight unsupported, however, stemmed from the inability of senior British officers to conduct the retirement under enemy pressure" He also writes "the peculiar relationship between Sir John French, Sir Douglas Haig and Sir Horace Smith-Dorrien contributed to the abandonment of Smith-Dorrien's force."

Charles Deede who transcribed the call between S-D and Wilson at 7am on 26th August is quoted as saying that S-D "spoke very cheerfully and one could not help admiring the strength of character that he displayed."

Regards

chris

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Were Haig and SD supposed not to get on? Certainly after the war he was a reasonably frequent visitor (ie three or four times) to Bemersyde, judging by the visitors' book. The dining room table there (and the carpet, more than somewhat threadbare in c.2006!) were purchased by Haig from SD when the Aldershot command changed.

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Chris

Interesting snippet. If I am reading this correctly it suggests French deliberately held I Corps back and prevented I Corps from joining II Corps at Le Cateau? ... I had not seen that before..... Puts a very different perspective on things. I have ordered the book so I can go through it all in good time... I wonder if he has any hard evidence for this claim? My sense is that Haig's intentions were to join up but local factors prevented this. I am not aware if any orders from GHQ to not join with II Corps. A very interesting

Nigel. Having researched Le Cateau I wonder if you have come across this claim?

Chris.... Your second quote is corroborated with accounts of Wilson's parting shot that he thought SD was the first cheerful voice he had heard all day (or words to that effect).

There seemed to be universal relief that they would be standing and fighting.

MG

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Martin and Nigel,

I am not sure about the relationship between Haig and S-D. The view is Gardner's. According to him the reaction at GHQ was one of despair when they received S-D's telegram that he would stand and fight. Gardner also mentions the staff there had a low opinion of S-D, but it seems a high one of Haig.

I haven't read enough about Le Cateau to know whether Gardner's account is accurate about the abandonment of II Corps. Nigel will be in a better position to answer that.

Regards

Chris

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Gardner's book adopted a particular perspective when examing command and control issues in the BEF. He raised a number of interesting points, some of which were new to his work. There are two important caveats. Gardner does not consider adequately the strong informal relationships that existed between the British commanders throughout the BEF. There is frequent mention of these in various sources, highlighting how the BEF was able to manage many urgent situations without reference to the command chain. Second, Gardner does not take sufficient account of the fog of war. Overall a useful book but not the definitive work on the issue of BEF command and control in the early phases of the war.

Robert

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Have just received Trial by Fire. If Gardner's account is accurate - and there is no reasons to assume it is not given the detailed referencing - It seems quite clear that when SD informed French and GHQ he was standing to fight, French decided to abandon II Corps but...and this is the critical part....he failed to tell him this.

This completely changes the perspective. If SD had known at 05:00 that he was on his own, he might have done some things differently. The failure by French to inform Smith-Dorrien of his decision was criminal.

MG

P.S. any thanks to all who recommended it. It is a fascinating read and has certainly broadened my understanding of the BEF in 1914 for sure. MG

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