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John Grant, Private 12372, Yorkshire Regt, 7th Bn, KIA 1 July 1916


doncarrnc

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Hello, I'm trying to confirm possible relation between John Grant and Joseph and Louis Bertram Grants. From what I've found in census data of time and a few other bits, I believe the three were brothers, from my grandmother's side. All were born / raised Newry.

I recall my grandmother saying she had three brothers killed in the war, and one was hit by a shell and not found. While all I have is very circumstantial, there are enough pointers indicating he is her third lost brother. I would greatly appreciate any help finding out age and additional details re John, his service, enlistment, etc.

30850_A000632-02217%25281%2529.jpg

http://www.ww1-yorkshires.org.uk/html-files/fricourt-cemetery.htm

http://www.ww1-yorkshires.org.uk/html-files/fricourt-cemetery.htm#grantorgill

Private John Grant. 12372. 7th Battalion Yorkshire Regiment. Killed 1 July 1916.
Born Newry (Ireland), Enlisted Richmond (Yorks), Resided Co. Down (Ireland).

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This article is apparently from 1916. It would be good to know the date as it may well rule out your John Grant.

We know about Louis and Joseph. Herbert was of course the youngest one, unfit Edward could have possibly joined up later? Is the other RIF son John or Francis?

Patriotic Newry Family

"It is pleasant to note the many families in Newry who have made patriotic sacrifices for King and country, and amongst the number that of Mr Patrick Grant, Cecil Street, stands out prominently. Mr Grant is well known as Mr J J McArevey's foreman. He has in all five sons. Of these three are with the colours. Louis Grant is in the South Lancashire Regiment, and is in hospital for the second time for wounds received at the Dardenelles. On the first occasion on which he was wounded blood-poisoning supervened. After a spell of hospital treatment he returned to duty, and was again wounded. The next son, Joseph, is with the Royal Irish Rifles in Frances. Another joined the battalion of the Royal Irish Fusiliers, last stationed in Newry, and was afterwards drafted to munition making at Barrow in Furness. The fourth son, Edward (also employed in Mr McArevey's) offered himself on Tuesday was certified medically unfit. The youngest boy is only fifteen years of age, and is therefore too young. Such a record as this is one that any family might be proud of. It is a credit to the Frontier Town, and an object lesson for the selfish, careless, and indolent." http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Grant-4487

What I also think is odd is that CWGC have the family details for Joseph and Louis only. Unless another son served under an alias?

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A search of soldiers' wills WW1 was negative, both British Probate Service and Irish National Archives.

Interestingly the Irish wills can be read online without a fee!

If he had left a will it would hopefully have name family members.

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A search of soldiers' wills WW1 was negative, both British Probate Service and Irish National Archives.

Interestingly the Irish wills can be read online without a fee!

If he had left a will it would hopefully have name family members.

Yes, the Irish National Archives digital collections are a treasure! I've been searching multiple ways and found so many details in past 7 days than have in prior years ; - ) The only will posted is Louis, which I have copy thanks to GWF member. I searched for Joseph and John, but had no hits. The seached Ancestry archives as well and only found John's MIC.

Thanks for your help, Harry.

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This article is apparently from 1916. It would be good to know the date as it may well rule out your John Grant.

We know about Louis and Joseph. Herbert was of course the youngest one, unfit Edward could have possibly joined up later? Is the other RIF son John or Francis?

Patriotic Newry Family

"It is pleasant to note the many families in Newry who have made patriotic sacrifices for King and country, and amongst the number that of Mr Patrick Grant, Cecil Street, stands out prominently. Mr Grant is well known as Mr J J McArevey's foreman. He has in all five sons. Of these three are with the colours. Louis Grant is in the South Lancashire Regiment, and is in hospital for the second time for wounds received at the Dardenelles. On the first occasion on which he was wounded blood-poisoning supervened. After a spell of hospital treatment he returned to duty, and was again wounded. The next son, Joseph, is with the Royal Irish Rifles in Frances. Another joined the battalion of the Royal Irish Fusiliers, last stationed in Newry, and was afterwards drafted to munition making at Barrow in Furness. The fourth son, Edward (also employed in Mr McArevey's) offered himself on Tuesday was certified medically unfit. The youngest boy is only fifteen years of age, and is therefore too young. Such a record as this is one that any family might be proud of. It is a credit to the Frontier Town, and an object lesson for the selfish, careless, and indolent." http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Grant-4487

What I also think is odd is that CWGC have the family details for Joseph and Louis only. Unless another son served under an alias?

Thank you very much, this article is most helpful, indeed! Edward had TB, which is why he was certified medically unfit. Below is summary for 2 April 1911 (Sunday) Census for 32 Cecil Street:

Surname Christian Name Age Sex Relation Notes Grant Patrick 54 Male Head of Family Too old to serve Grant Mary Catherine 26 Female Daughter Grant Edward 24 Male Son Medically unfit b/c TB Grant Francis 22 Male Son Frank maybe one referenced in article as served in Royal Irish Fusiliers Grant Josephine 20 Female Daughter Grant Helena 16 Female Daughter Grant Joseph 14 Male Son Served RIR and died of wounds 16 July 1916; buried Rouen Grant John 12 Male Son John was 12 as of 2 April 1911 and would have been 17 in 1916 Grant Herbert 10 Male Son Too young to serve; he would be 15 during time of article Grant Margaret 9 Female Daughter My Grandmother

Given the known family details in the article, I suspect that it may have been written some time in 1915, toward the end of the year. Louis was already married and out of house; his service in Dardenelles started 1 July 1915, per his MIC. Joseph's service in France started 5 July, 1915, per his MIC.

I will need to research Frank to see what I can find. I have no explanation for why there is no mention of John, though ;- ) More bits to follow.

Thanks again for this link / article. I now have some more details re Louis' service that we didn't know yesterday!

It is looking unlikely that John may not be related, but still no proof either way.

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Another clue => validation above article was written 1915. Below is obituary for Joseph Grant from Newry Reporter, published 20 July 1916:

PATRIOTIC NEWRY FAMILY BEREAVED.

Private Joseph Grant, Royal Irish Rifles (Newry), has been killed in action. His death took place on Sunday last in France, and has been heard of with deep regret in Newry. The deceased was a son of Mr. Patrick Grant, Cecil Street, Newry, foreman in the employment of Mr. J. J. M’Arevey, J.P., Newry, and he is the second member of St. Patrick’s Band who has lost his life at the Front. Mr. Grant has two other sons with the colours-Sergeant Louis Grant, South Lancashire Regiment (who was twice wounded at the Dardanelles), and Private Jack Grant, Royal Irish Rifles-and another of his sons, Frank, is engaged at munition work in England. Much sympathy is felt for the decease’s father and other relatives in their bereavement.

Newry Reporter, July 20, 1916.

Above confirms my assessment that Francis / Frank was the one brother working in munitions plant. This article says "Jack" was with RIR. Since John was his given name, I'll need to research John / Jack in RIR records.

Wonder is anyone looking at John Grant MIC above can tell whether any of writing within might indicate initial service RIR and then transfer?

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Not much help but i've belatedly found Frank's Special Reserve RIR papers. He joined in 1911 and was discharged as medically unfit in June 1914.

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Not much help but i've belatedly found Frank's Special Reserve RIR papers. He joined in 1911 and was discharged as medically unfit in June 1914.

Appreciate the assist very much. It is all new to me. Are his papers accessible online?

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  • 4 weeks later...

Okay, after assessing additional leads, bits and tips, here and there, I no longer believe John Grant, Private 12372, Yorkshire Regt, 7th Bn, is the John / Jack Grant I seek from 32 Cecil Street, Newry. I've found Medal Cards for 6 John Grants, but none looked like good matches either.

I need to find / confirm Newry enlistments into RIR. I'm hoping to get some details from the Newry Roll of Honour, which is 33 pages in length and records the name, rank, regiment and address of 866 men and one woman from Newry who had enlisted by April 1915. The date may be an issue, though, as I think my John / Jack would still have been too young for service by then. I think he may have enlisted after 1915.

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