EDWARD1 Posted 11 May , 2014 Share Posted 11 May , 2014 If a soldier "died of wounds received in action" as stated on attached, and the date(s) quoted for his death give a 5 day range (5-10th). Why not "killed in action" and why has he no known grave? Also what is the last line on both documents looks like "b992" does it refer to an army form? Thanks Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 11 May , 2014 Share Posted 11 May , 2014 Eddie, I can't explain the date range, but the document referred to looks like C992 to me and probably refers to a Casualty List on which he was recorded. Presumably you can't find the location on any of the record. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 11 May , 2014 Share Posted 11 May , 2014 I can't explain the date range either - except to suggest he died during a period of chaos when precise recording was difficult. "Died of wounds" is usually recorded when a man has reached some form of medical attention. That may be in a forward area where his grave was subsequently lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 11 May , 2014 Share Posted 11 May , 2014 He might have been wounded and succumbed quite quickly but not until after receiving attention from an RAMC member at or near where he was wounded. This would count as DOW not KIA. In the heat of action his body might have had to be abandoned or he was buried in a hasty grave which was since lost. Casualty details might not have been collected until some time afterwards by which time there mightr well be some confusion over exactly when he died. Tidy and accurate record keeping is not always possible in the middle of a huge and ferocious battle as people often have other things on their minds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDWARD1 Posted 11 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 11 May , 2014 Thank you Phil , John & Centurion He is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial I believe he may have been killed during the build up to the attack on Gird Ridge. Anyone know the position of the 21st KRRC 1st ten days of October 16 ? Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 11 May , 2014 Share Posted 11 May , 2014 Thank you Phil , John & Centurion He is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial I believe he may have been killed during the build up to the attack on Gird Ridge. Anyone know the position of the 21st KRRC 1st ten days of October 16 ? Eddie Eddie, they were relieved after their attack on Delville Wood and the Switch Line on 15th September. They were relieved to the Support Line and from there to Dernancourt. Attack on Bayonet Trench 7th October - they were in support and relieved the leading waves at the objective. Casualties recorded as high. The entire Brigade strength numbered less than a normal Battalion. (From Ray Westlake's British Battalions on the Somme). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDWARD1 Posted 11 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 11 May , 2014 Many thanks Tom ps how stupid am I, I have a copy of the self same book...........doooh Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 11 May , 2014 Share Posted 11 May , 2014 Thank you Phil , John & Centurion He is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial I believe he may have been killed during the build up to the attack on Gird Ridge. Anyone know the position of the 21st KRRC 1st ten days of October 16 ? Eddie Eddie I have put a huge amount about the 21st Bn KRRC at Gird Ridge on this thread, 21st Battalion KRRC - the Original Yeomen. Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 11 May , 2014 Share Posted 11 May , 2014 This post on that thread refers to several men killed at Gird Ridge, buried in the AIF cemetery. I'm pretty sure I've found a few who were said to have DOW yet ended up on the Thiepval Memorial, but haven't time just at the moment to look for them. '5/10' October is what is normally found on casualty records for 21/KRRC at Gird Ridge, though some dates can be narrowed down where there is other evidence. If you would put this man's name on the thread along with any other details you have about him, it would add to the story there. I have a lot of material that hasn't made it on to the thread yet - it all got a bit much! - but I might be able to help, or others might. Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDWARD1 Posted 11 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 11 May , 2014 Liz Thanks for the link above. He was Percy Simons C12681 from Skelton one of three brothers who served. He and one other brother were awarded the Military Medal.The other two brothers survived. Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 12 May , 2014 Share Posted 12 May , 2014 I've always understood too that if a man reached a medical unit & then died that he died of wounds because he was alive when he was recd there. The severity of his wounds caused his death so he died of wounds. As mentioned the chaos at times prevented timely recording of such things so always the chance of some error somewhere. Same for the burials, so many graves lost to shellfire later were impossible to locate even if recorded on a map or report. Unfortunate & terribly sad but it was how it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 12 May , 2014 Share Posted 12 May , 2014 Liz Thanks for the link above. He was Percy Simons C12681 from Skelton one of three brothers who served. He and one other brother were awarded the Military Medal.The other two brothers survived. Eddie Eddie Many thanks and please forgive a hasty response as I haven't been able to spend much time on the forum at the weekend and won't be able to till tonight at the earliest. I should have made myself clearer - would you put this info on the thread I linked to? I see from my file I did do the basic Ancestry research on Percy Simons though I don't think it's on the thread. I will have a further check but it's easier to find if it's with all the other 21/KRRC info. I hope you've noticed I transcribed the 21/KRRC war diary for the period on to that thread, though it's pretty skimpy. The same happened with their earlier action at Flers as with Gird Ridge - most records say 15/17 September, and there are all sorts of variations on the KIA/DOW entry, with some saying KIA on 17 Sept when the unit was not in action and nothing happened to them except that some men died of wounds received on 15 September. As people have pointed out, it was a very confused situation. I have also noted on the other thread that the adjutant for this period was Anthony Eden, then a 19-year-old subaltern who had been given the job because so many officers had been killed or wounded at Flers. Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDWARD1 Posted 12 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 12 May , 2014 Liz The info is already on the link in post 328 Thanking you Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRC Kevin Posted 12 May , 2014 Share Posted 12 May , 2014 It is also possible that his original burial site was cleared shortly after the war and when the bodies were taken to another cemetery individual identities were lost. I had this issue with a group of about seven 1/5 King's Own who were buried at the Briqueterie, which the battalion used as their cemetery in 1916. This cemetery was cleared post-war and these bodies buried in Quarry Cemetery- this group of men are now shown as having 'no known grave' and are commemorated on Thiepval. However, the records for two of these men held letters written in the 1920s, which informed the family that their loved one had been reburied in Quarry Cemetery. I contacted CWGC about this and was told that originally, the policy had been to let relatives know the cemetery an unidentified body had been buried in if it was known for certain that their relative had been one of those in the original burial location. This policy changed couple of months after the letters were written as it was believed that the information may lack accuracy and hence forwards the only commemoration would be on memorials for men of this category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDWARD1 Posted 13 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2014 IRC Kevin Thanks for your input Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 13 May , 2014 Share Posted 13 May , 2014 Liz The info is already on the link in post 328 Thanking you Eddie So it is, Eddie, sorry, there's so much on that thread, I'd forgotten! And I commented on Lloyd-Greame too. I'm puzzled then that you hadn't found all the details about the battalion's movements at Gird Ridge and asked here if anyone knew them, but perhaps you'd forgotten too... Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDWARD1 Posted 13 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2014 It comes to us all..... not only that I had forgotten about the earlier posting, but I had also copied the Diary extract. Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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