Six of seven brothers of the AIF died overseas- really?

[kris]

IT might be a couple of years since this topic was posted, however in my recent research, I am researching Clarence Leslie Smith, from Strathpine, who was awarded a Military Medal.  I had no idea about all that Mr Fox was involved with,  nor that he contrived, including placing photographs of unknown people, purporting to be Clarence Leslie Smith, and splashed with it being his relative who was awarded the MM.  Totally incorrect.  When I first found this out, unbeknown to me your forum topic, I challenged the Veterans Affairs Minister in South Australia, whose grandfather is the SA man.  Now I have no idea how much experience this family has with research, but it is not at all difficult to read a citation.  I have asked the Minister to remove all photos indicating this from media.  He has acknowledged the fact, but he is in a position to do something about it.  It would perhaps seem to me now in current research, that this whole episode was the forrunner for some other activity.  Dead children cannot serve in the war, and there is so much information about the different Smith boys on Trove.  Some amazing facts emerge.  Nobody could get that so wrong.  I have also checked with Gravesites of SA who have lots of photographs, she cannot recognise any of them.  I am beginning to think that perhaps not one photo is of who it is supposed to be.

[1st AIF]

A footnote to this story is that Mr Fox is under investigation about the Camp Gallipoli project which received federal funding. The original story of 6 out 7 brothers killed drummed up support for this project. It involved charging kids to sleep in a tent at the original recruiting grounds of the AIF, give them a swag to sleep in, a few biscuits and charge them a heap of money. A noble cause to get kids to remember and appreciate our Anzac heritage. Just seems Mr Fox took over a $100,000 on management fees and the government is investigating over $1,000,000 being channelled into Mr Fox's family companies.

[wochee]

Hi all.  Can someone please send me a link to Mr Fox's use of this story to whip up support for Camp Gallipoli, and his claim they are relatives of his?  I have been watching Camp Gallipoli for some time, and would be keen for the information.

[kris]

http://www.todaytonightadelaide.com.au/the-team/hendrik-gout   If you follow the links on this you will see a segment which aired recently. 

[moggs]

Two interesting articles indeed!  Camp Gallipoli is beginning to get a very different feel from which it started out.  A shame, as I believed it to be a reasonable concept, especially for school students.  My own school has been involved from the start and the students come back with deep experiences.  If only Mr. Fox was able to pay the dues he promised then he may be better treated than he has been.

 

Mind you, he mentioned raising money for the Pozieres school.  If I remember correctly, that was a part of the horrible Pozieres Memorial Park fund raiser - perhaps the school was the only honourable aspect - which has been discussed in another thread (I can't find it as the search engine comes up with an error).  If Mr. Fox is a part of that group then I find his efforts to be even more self-serving.

 

Jonathan

[wochee]

Thanks Kris

[kris]

Short update, but I have located the son of the real Clarence Leslie Smith, and he naturally was stunned to think this family had claimed his father's medal and all that went with the story.  The real Clarry Smith, Queensland, was one of 3 Smith brothers who served on the Western Front, and all returned.  All gassed.  I have a photo of one of these boys, and looking forward to receiving a copy of one of the 3 together.     As far as the research goes, there are another 2 families whose relatives details have been misused, and that when I raised this with the Minister in SA he would have known full well the truth, and that to be does not sit right.

 

[Moonraker]

On 06/07/2016 at 08:24, moggs said:

...  If I remember correctly, that was a part of the horrible Pozieres Memorial Park fund raiser - perhaps the school was the only honourable aspect - which has been discussed in another thread (I can't find it as the search engine comes up with an error)...

 

Jonathan

 

Is this the thread?

 

Moonraker

[moggs]

Spot on.  Thanks.

[Auimfo]

Sad to say but it appears we were right all along and our suspicions about Chris Fox and his 'Camp Gallipoli' are likely to be correct.  If you're able to watch this link, there are three separate reports by a current affairs programme here in Australia about the latest developments.

 

http://www.todaytonightadelaide.com.au/stories/search?utf8=✓&keywords=camp+gallipoli&category=

 

Cheers,

Tim L.

[ss002d6252]

1 hour ago, Auimfo said:

Sad to say but it appears we were right all along and our suspicions about Chris Fox and his 'Camp Gallipoli' are likely to be correct.  If you're able to watch this link, there are three separate reports by a current affairs programme here in Australia about the latest developments.

 

http://www.todaytonightadelaide.com.au/stories/search?utf8=✓&keywords=camp+gallipoli&category=

 

Cheers,

Tim L.

With ongoing legal action then the MOD's may limit discussion but I will say that it will hopefully be dealt with appropriately by any courts.

Craig

Edited 16 August , 2016 by ss002d6252

[David Filsell]

Terrific stuff. Why not speak to another newspaper - perhaps one of a different 'political, view that would like to score points of a rival.

[moggs]

22 minutes ago, David Filsell said:

Terrific stuff. Why not speak to another newspaper - perhaps one of a different 'political, view that would like to score points of a rival.

 

Actually, I find it very sad.  So many well meaning people, and children too, who have been abused financially and emotionally - there was always an emotional level which was being manipulated here.  And still, the concept of Camp Gallipoli is a good one.  I hope it can continue.  

 

Jonathan

 

 

[frev]

6 hours ago, Auimfo said:

Sad to say but it appears we were right all along and our suspicions about Chris Fox and his 'Camp Gallipoli' are likely to be correct.  If you're able to watch this link, there are three separate reports by a current affairs programme here in Australia about the latest developments.

 

http://www.todaytonightadelaide.com.au/stories/search?utf8=✓&keywords=camp+gallipoli&category=

 

Cheers,

Tim L.

 

Thanks for sharing the link Tim....a sad state of affairs indeed!

[Auimfo]

I also noticed that their Camp Gallipoli website is gone and only states 'account suspended'.

 

From the beginning, the entire concept struck me as someone commercialising Gallipoli for personal gain, but I just can't understand why so many notable people and knowledgable groups seemed to blindly believe everything they were fed. 

 

Cheers,

Tim L.

Edited 17 August , 2016 by Auimfo

[Auimfo]

I've just been reviewing the original articles and all the previous posts and there was always something nagging at me about this story that I could never put my finger on.  Well, it finally came to me after just now listening to an excerpt of Chris Fox on radio earlier this year, still spouting the story of the stamp and the brothers to promote Camp Gallipoli.

 

From the outset, Fox stated that it was the short note written on the back of the stamp, affixed to an envelope sent home from the front by Aubrey (Jack) Smith that "haunted the hell out of me" (as he put it).  But I now have some doubts about that.   Firstly, I was of the impression that mail sent from soldiers through army channels was free of charge and therefore they wouldn't be required to affix stamps to their envelopes?   However, even if it was privately mailed through other means outside army mail, Fox stated it came back from the front and I presume by this he means either France/Belgium or perhaps even Egypt or England.  No matter - it still wouldn't be an Australian stamp on the envelope as this one is.  

 

Cheers,

Tim L.

[moggs]

Tim, you should be a police officer.    

 

Jonathan

[green_acorn]

Tim and Moggs,

 

And you should not just be any old police officer, get into forensics!

 

Hendo

[Neil Mackenzie]

The Foundation has had it's charitable status removed.

 

http://www.theage.com.au/national/camp-gallipoli-stripped-of-charity-status-following-acnc-investigation-20161223-gth2vm.html

 

Neil

[Auimfo]

Very interesting reading thanks Neil.  They attempted to claim they'd been cleared after the DVA Report was released but failed to mention that the real investigation into their conduct by the ACNC was still ongoing.  The results of that investigation show that they're weren't exactly as squeaky clean as they'd have everyone believe.  I wonder if Ray Martin will do another 'Current Affairs' special now?

 

Cheers,

Tim.

 

[Guest]

On 26/04/2014 at 16:30, Auimfo said:

And it's very odd that not a single one of the brothers rated a mention on the Yongala Memorial erected after the war!!

Cheers,

Tim L.

 

Some of you may have noticed on the image of the Yongala Memorial that three Potter brothers are commemorated rather than any Smith's. It is a great shame that this Smith story has diverted people from knowing the tragic real story of what happened to this tiny town. These three soldiers were killed on the same day - 3 September 1916 - and a fourth brother (Ralph) was wounded late March 1917 and eventually invalided home.  They fought with the 52nd Battalion AIF - my grandfather's battalion. Later this year the Australian War Memorial Last Post service will commemorate all three in the one service.  This has happened only once previously - commemorating the three Seabrook brothers from the 17th Battalion who were mortally wounded / lost at Passchendaele in the attack on 20 September 1917.  To their credit Peterborough District Council have just renamed a street in Yongala Potter Lane. Lest We Forget.

Edited 24 April , 2019 by Guest
Correct date of wounding of surviving brother

[Guest]

Here is the news story - https://www.theflindersnews.com.au/story/2534060/yongalas-world-war-i-tragedy-uncovered/

 

cheers

[moggs]

Thanks for the link, Dale.  True remembrance.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Jonathan

[Guest]

Mates,

 

Just to add to your great research can I add, to Frederick Walter Smith is one of my Camel Corps soldiers.

 

I record him as;

 

SMITH    Frederick Walter    3548    Pte    ICC    13R to CTU 12-17 tos 18Co/4Bn ICC 2-18 to hosp (lumbago) 4-18 to 1 LHTR 7-18 to B Troop BSqn/01 LHR 8-18 to hosp (lumbago) 8-18 RTA 23-12-18 MU debility

 

As to Tim's other answer about my camel corps soldier (Saving Pte Ryan)

 

PEARCE    Carl    488    Pte    14Bn    DCo evac to (1 AGH) hosp (dysentry) 8-15 rtn 10-15 (G) tos 3Co/1Bn ICC 1-16 to hosp (scabies) 12-16 to 4Co/1Bn 1-17 killed in fighting around Hill 400 at Amman body left on battlefield NKG listed on Jerusalem Memorial Palestine (see attempts to save is life after his brothers were killed in France but arrvied to late and only Edward returned home (Saving Pte Ryan) Brothers Richard 15Bn, Stanley 5Bn & Herbert Auckland Bn NZEF KIA and Edward 3 LHR 
 

PEARCE    Edward James    826    Pte    03 LHR    3R tos C Sqn 4-15 evac to Imtarfa hosp Malta (enteric) 12-15 (G) to 1 LHTR 3-16 rtn C Sqn 3-16 to (3 London GH) hosp Wandsworth UK (cornal ulcer) 8-16 to 4 Trg Bn (12Bn) UK 9-16 to DCo/51Bn 10-16 WIA 16-10-17 gas mustard reported possibly during relief by 49Bn or moving to camp around Ypres canal at Passchendaele rtn Cpl 4-18 WIA 24-4-18 R/thigh shot reported during counterattack around Villers Bretonneux F&B RTA reported disch due to the loss of all his brothers during the war (saving Pte Ryan) disch 3-12-18 brothers Richard 15Bn KIA, Carl ICC KIA, Stanley 5Bn KIA and Herbert Auckland Bn NZEF KIA

 

PEARCE    Herbert    12/1762    Pte    NZEF    3R Auckland Bn WIA 7-8-15 L/Leg shot during fighting at Chanak Bair (G) died at Alexandria buried Chatby War Memorial Cemetery Egypt Brothers Carl ICC, Richard 15Bn, and Stanley 5Bn all KIA & Edward 3 LHR 
 

Cheers

S.B

Edited 24 April , 2019 by stevebecker

[Guest]

The original story written  is completely wrong & yes Auimfo you are quite correct as they are all my Ancestors Uncles & Great Grandfathers 

Leo Smith