Six of seven brothers of the AIF died overseas- really?

[Auimfo]

Thanks for the update rangram. It's sooooooo nice of Mr Fox to possibly 'allow' a retraction of factual errors about your Grandfather. As you point out, it's an interesting choice of words. I too would have thought any retraction would be the decision of the journo and editor, not the subject, which makes me question who is really the driving force behind the article......and why?

But as they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat and I'm already onto it.

I'll send you a private message (PM) to your forum inbox with my contact details. At the very top of the screen towards the right hand side, you'll see an envelope - this will take you to your inbox. I think you have to make five posts before having the ability to send a message yourself.

Cheers,

Tim L.

[rangram]

Thanks to Tim for background assistance and all of you for your support for the truth. At the moment there's nothing to report in terms of getting a retraction, but we will persist.

[rangram]

Ian McPhedran's latest is that there will be no retraction and he is relying on the information received from Mr Fox.

[moggs]

So, he's not a real journalist then. Maybe it's time to make a fuss with the paper itself.

Jonathan

[Andrew P]

Well done to all for the research. Almost sounds like something for Mediawatch to get their teeth into if the newspaper doesn't want to run a retraction.

[Auimfo]

[Steven Broomfield]

Out of interest, as you guys have (very cleverly) shot this story full of holes, is the newspaper not transgressing any media rules on continuing to propagate it? (Presumably why the reference to Media Watch in post 30).

Well done, by the way - interesting thread.

[centurion]

Out of interest, as you guys have (very cleverly) shot this story full of holes, is the newspaper not transgressing any media rules on continuing to propagate it? (Presumably why the reference to Media Watch in post 30).

Ah but upholding the time dishonoured rule of not letting the facts get in the way of a good story! A tradition that goes all the way back to Gallipoli and Murdoch senior (and even he eventually had the grace to apologise later)

[Steven Broomfield]

And interestingly, the "newspaper" concerned seems to belong to Mr Murdoch's much-loved son.

[Peter Stanley]

Hello

Since I'm implicated in what turns out to be a completely mistaken story about the six Smith brothers supposedly killed in the Great War, I feel obliged to join your forum (which I have often lurked on to my advantage) and make a statement.

Ian McPhedran called me twice, on 24 April a few hours before his deadline, and asked me some questions about the context of the story. I told him that I hadn't heard of any case of six out of seven brothers being killed in the Great War, and that it would have been a rare if not unique occurrence. I said that i wasn't aware of any 'Private Ryan' arrangement in the AIF (by which surviving brothers could be spared). I also confirmed that many men enlisted under aliases, and realised that as Smiths there was every chance that their stories had been concealed by the anonymity that being a Smith confers. (I knew this having written Digger Smith and Australia's Great War, of course.)

He did not show me any documentation, and because of the urgency I did not ask to see any - I was myself busy with my own projects that day. I trusted that a senior journalist would have good grounds for regarding the story as dinkum: my error, perhaps, but I like to be helpful to journalists (and others).

Having now read the evidence presented by various people, including the material offered through this forum, I agree that the story is, as they say, 'busted'. I think that it is now beholden on Ian to correct or retract the story, and have written to him to ask him to do so.

As we all know, the problem is that the story now exists on the internet, and not all readers will be as sceptical or vigilant as are members of this forum, and the incorrect story will hang around in Anzac cyberspace for ever.

Thank you to all those who have helped to establish the correct story.

Cheerio

Prof. Peter Stanley

University of New South Wales, Canberra

Australian Defence Force Academy

[moggs]

Peter,

firstly, welcome to the forum. It's really encouraging to now that there are people of your ilk and knowledge who are around and willing to support.

Secondly, thanks for your post. I have followed this thread from the beginning and only felt the need to respond in the latter aspects. I must say I was surprised that your name had been attached to such a flagrantly poor piece of journalism. Your response clears that up and further implicates the so-called journalist in the beat-up based on misleading and unsourced hearsay.

All the best and may you add to our threads as you can

Jonathan

[rangram]

I have just had a private email from Peter Stanley to which I have replied thanking him for his input. Hopefully that might put the matter to rest. I am appalled that he was dragged into commenting on the original article.

[Peter Stanley]

Hello Moggs and rangam, and thanks. It's an unfortunate case - especially because once launched into cyberspace the six-Smith-brothers-who-died furphy will never go away - but I'm not inclined to judge Ian McPhedran too harshly. Working journalists are the slaves to deadlines and we all make mistakes. I have a word for historians who never make mistakes - it's unpublished. So I hope Ian will correct the story and all will be well.

Cheerio

Peter Stanley

[rangram]

Peter, yes, Ian McPhedran may have made a mistake. However it is his failure so far to correct it that has become the problem.

I hope he does, but as you say the story will persist.

[Auimfo]

Hi Peter,

Welcome to the GWF and thanks for your timely input. Fortunately it was obvious that you had only been asked to provide some general information and not been party to the gross errors that appeared in the article.

It is perhaps understandable that Chris Fox has been mislead by passed-down family legend - he's not the Lone Ranger there - and it maybe even possible to forgive Ian McPhedran's complete lack of journalistic responsibility to check facts and sources prior to publication, had they immediately acted and publicly retracted the story. But by stubbornly refusing to back down, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, they have perpetuated the myth and permitted it to spread beyond anyone's ability to recall.

As you state, it now appears that this 'story' will sadly be destined to exist in cyberspace for ever and no doubt will be drawn upon by Australian students studying the Great War at schools during the coming centenary years, ultimately finding it's way into Australian folklore. That is the true tragedy of this case and it rests squarely on the shoulders of Ian McPhedran.

One can only hope that News Corp Australia will heed your request and seek to redress the damage that's already been done by posting a full and complete retraction throughout all their publications in which it appeared, including print and online.

Cheers,

Tim L.

[Auimfo]

Peter,

Thanks to a great find by a member of the FFFAIF on their Facebook page, this really interesting document has surfaced. Although there was no 'formal' policy of returning last surviving brothers home, it appears that an unwritten rule of thumb was employed.

This letter written by Birdwood was in the service file of Trooper Carl PEARCE, 1st Australian Bn, Imperial Camel Corps.

Sadly the response from Chauvel was a notification that Pearce had been KIA only a few weeks before.

Cheers,

Tim L.

[rangram]

Thank you to all who have supported a retraction of this story on the basis of documented evidence. It has appeared at http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/anzac-centenary/the-great-anzac-mystery-of-the-smith-brothers-did-they-all-die-in-wwi/story-fnmeodw7-1226912198637 and hopefully in all the other places where it first appeared. There are still a couple of errors e.g. Herbert William married in 1910 not 1916.

[Auimfo]

Hi All,

The follow-up story is far better than the original but still manages to fall short of being 'well researched'.

The photos of Herbert and Alfred in uniform are clearly mis-labelled (Herbert never enlisted and Alfred died as a 2 year old). I personally think those three photos are of the same person and likely one of the other SMITH brothers - possibly Aubrey Lyall - who really did enlist!!

Ian McPhedran only mentions the official BDM records as a passing reference when talking about Marcia NICHOLL but seems to deliberately leave things hazy probably just to hide his own original incompetence. Then there's the final sudden revelation about illegitimate brothers and the use of an original brothers name but no explanation about this information or its source.

Seems like a big a**e-covering exercise to me.

Cheers,

Tim L.

[moggs]

Seems like a big a**e-covering exercise to me.

Cheers,

Tim L.

I thought much the same when I read the so-called retraction. He didn't really recant nor truly apologise just wrote a number of vague references to the facts being cloudy enough. Poor effort all round.

Jonathan

[1st AIF]

^{Yes at least they have conceded that the original story was totally incorrect.}

^{What I didn't like about the "retraction" is that there was no real apology or retraction. In fact McPhedran and Fox try to further deepen the story by planting seeds of mystery and secrets. In fact it was poor research and possible fabrication that was the guts of the first story.}

^{Pretty flimsy follow up story I think.}

^Len

[Mark Hone]

I agree; the 'retraction' is more of an attempt to muddy the waters and imply that there is still some dramatic mystery to be uncovered. As stated above, there is also the impression given that the actual facts of the case remain uncertain whereas they are made absolutely clear in the records researched by Forum Pals and others . There are enough amazing true stories from the Great War without fabricating new ones.

[Guest Yongala brothers]

It appears noone noticed the three Potters from Yongala - check out Auimfo's post on 26/4/14.
Three Potter brothers, Edward, Thomas and Hurtle, were killed on the same day in the battle for Moquet Farm in September 1916. Their brother Ralph survived.
I visited Hurtle's grave yesterday and Villers - Bretonneux where Edward and Thomas have their memorial.
More details of the Potter brothers on the forum titled "two brothers who died on the same day".
When I read the article in the Advertiser I thought that Yongala must have been the unluckiest town in Australia. Even if the other story is not substantiated, I continue to believe that the loss of three children from the same family means Yongala has suffered a great tragedy and I cannot comprehend the tragedy for the family.
A Potter
Amiens, France

[Guest Yongala brothers]

Hurtle Potter's grave stone at Courcelette British Cemetery.

[Guest Xlamb]

Hello everyone! I may be the odd one out here but I'm really glad that Chris Fox shared his family's story re- Lottie and the mystery surrounding her missing brothers and the treasured message on the one penny stamp.

Back in June 2010 I also set out to unravel a strange story told to myself and my sister as children, and this in turn led me to query an I.D. card issued in 1918 to a Mr. H.C. Reynolds. I'd had the I.D. card in my possession since about 1968 and never knew who he was. After seeking further advise I sent the I.D. off to Maciej Henneberg at Adelaide University for his expert examination. His comparative findings showed the photo on the I.D. card was a match to an unidentified man found on Somerton Beach on 1/12/48. For those unfamiliar with the Somerton Man Mystery (sometimes referred to as 'Taman Shud'), more on the unsolved case can be found on Wikipedia. It's another of those weird stories that floats around the Internet and grows with every new theory, but never put to rest. My reason for giving it a mention here, is that one of the Smith Brothers, Clarence, was my Uncles father. Back in Dec. 1948 he was a young Policeman in Adelaide and a close friend and brother-in-law to my father.

I don't wish to throw a spanner in the works or add further speculation where it may not even exist though. The two stories hold a common family link via marriage, but may thread together only by co-incidence. The Somerton Man was found to have a note worded 'Tamam Shud' left in his pocked...and this leads Police investigators to a book of poems, a phone number, a secret code, spies etc.; and it goes on and on. There's a curious similarity in Mr. Fox's family story. His tale has a secret message on a stamp 'I go out to return...Jack'. In the case of the Somerton Man it's a message placed in the deceased pocket reading 'Tamam Shud' and said to mean 'the end or finish'. I can't help but wonder whether one little family secret (Lottie's treasured stamp) became the inspiration for something similar played out in Dec. 1948, then embellished by media to unstoppable proportions...and left uncorrected it goes on to become another of our history's 'great Australian yarns'. I'd just like to get to the truth concerning Mr. H.C. Reynolds and hopefully put a name to the deceased. As members on this forum did such a wonderful job of cutting through the nonsense and getting to the truth in the curious case of the 'Smith Brothers' I wondered whether anyone can help lend their skills to unravel this. Thanks!

[Guest Xlamb]

Update...The Adelaide Advertiser Sunday Sept. 28th. page 20 has a near full page promotional piece for the up coming 'Camp Gallipoli' sleep out. It's headed "Why Aussies need swag to win back Anzac spirit". The article is well written, however it again states in part ..."Mr. Fox who has lost six relatives (tragically, all brothers) in the war...". Sadly it seems that all your efforts to set the records straight, wasn't enough. I don't think the message got through.