Dorothy bag--exactly what is it, size, image, etc.

[catfishmo]

While reading The Roses of No Man's Land, I came across a reference to a 'dorothy bag':

229: “Every mail brought letters from patients [to the Matron], grateful for their treatment; for the small gifts which she had stowed in their 'Dorothy Bags' before they left; for the letters and parcels she had sent to them in base hospitals in Blighty; or comforts she had sent them at the Front long after their discharge.”

Is this the drawstring bag used to store mens' personal effects while he was at a medical facility? I read somewhere that it was generally hung on the bedpost and was very important to the soldier as, by the time he reached a CCS or hospital, all he owned at the Front was in that bag. I understand his name and unit info was written on the bag. I don't think Sharpies were invented back then. How did they write on the bag?

If indeed this 'dorothy bag' is the drawstring bag, I believe it was used as well to store the items of the deceased, then sent back the family.

Anyone know anything else about this bag? Size, image, etc?

Thanks--

~Ginger

[Lancashire Fusilier]

While reading The Roses of No Man's Land, I came across a reference to a 'dorothy bag':

229: “Every mail brought letters from patients [to the Matron], grateful for their treatment; for the small gifts which she had stowed in their 'Dorothy Bags' before they left; for the letters and parcels she had sent to them in base hospitals in Blighty; or comforts she had sent them at the Front long after their discharge.”

Ginger,

At the time of WW1, it seems that a ' Dorothy Bag ' in civilian life, would have been a general utility woman's bag for carrying various different items.

In the context of WW1, the ' Dorothy Bag ' bag had the same purpose, a general utility bag for carrying/storing various personal items taken from the wounded at the time they came into the Field Hospital.

The bag was probably linen with a simple draw-string tie at the top, and I did in fact find a reference ( attached ) to the ' Dorothy Bag ' being used in that context, I also found a photo of what the ' WW1 Hospital ' version of the Dorothy Bag looked like, also attached.

" [The procedure for receiving the wounded began in] … a large marquee erected near the entrance much like a circus tent in its size. There the wounded were received, examined by an M.O., who ordered their further disposal. After he had examined their condition, they stripped of their bloodstained and dusty khaki – parts of which had often been slit up or cut away to allow the doctors in the forward areas to dress their wounds and give them injections of Anti Telamic Serum. Their various private belongings were collected into a Dorothy bag bearing their name and rank. The men were dressed in Red Cross Pyjamas and carried on stretchers to the dressing room and put on one of ten tables, which were constantly kept going during the days which succeeded the battle. Again they were seen by another Med. Off. who ordered their special dressing and often dressed them if time permitted, and sent them to different wards. I may say the wards were many and varied. Perhaps it was straight to the Operating Theatre – in case of haemmorrhage or abdominal wounds. Many of the boys coming in with a leg blown off. It was dressed in the Aid Posts, a Tourniquet applied to stop bleeding, and went hurriedly to theCCS in charge of an A. M. C. man, for immediate operation. Sometimes they died on the way, and never reached the hospital alive. Then we had a post-operative ward, a pre-operative ward, resusitation, chest, abdominal, jaw, multiple wound, and lastly a moribund or dying ward."

P.S. I know your part of North Carolina particularly well, and have been to Charlotte countless times.

Regards,

LF

[centurion]

. How did they write on the bag?

With an indelible pencil used for marking laundry http://www.crayoncollecting.com/Other/ClarkPencil.htm

[Sue Light]

The bag was an initiative started and funded by Lady Smith-Dorrien, and supplies organised from workers world-wide through the Queen Mary Needlework Guild.

'The Bags should measure about 12 by 14 inches when finished, with a double draw string of tape, and glazed calico label to take ink (the same material as linen luggage labels) some 4 by 2 inches, to be sewn on all round, about 2 inches from the bottom of the bag. Suitable material, which should be new, can be obtained at the wholesale price of 7d a yard (each yard making 3 good bags)'.

'Bags are supplied not only to all theatres of war but to hospital ships as well and the total sent up to 31st May 1917 was 1,833,194. For the first year and a half all bags for France were sent to base depots for medical stores and thence were issued by the Medical Authorities, but as this did not prove very expeditious the present system was instituted, which is to send 40,000 a month to the Medical Stores Depots and the remainder in smaller quantities straight to General Hospitals and C.C. Stations. The largest number sent in any one month was in March, 1917, when a total of 124,424 was reached, whilst the average for March, April and May was 106,000.'

Sue

[auchonvillerssomme]

_{Did it relate to the 'Ditty Bag'?}

[Sue Light]

Ditty Bag

[catfishmo]

Wow, thanks! That was better/more thorough info than I was expecting. The sources both LF and Sue quoted look like they might be worth my exploring further. Do you know where did the quotes come from?

Sue's info indicates that the bags were to have a band around the bottom suitable for writing the info on, yet the bag LF posted does not have that. Any thoughts as to why? Perhaps at the beginning of the war, the band was part of the original design, but as time went on they found it to be unnecessary??

Has anyone else seen reference that it was hung on the bedstead? In the pics I've seen of hospital beds, they don't really seem to have a 'post' onto which the bag could be hung--unless the bag was sort of tied to the bedstead. And many of the beds don't have have any kind of bedstead at all--look more like it could fold up in half.

LF--I hope the parts of Charlotte you saw represented us well. Driving around recently I was struck by how ugly some parts are! At least I hope you were treated well while here : )

[Sue Light]

There are a lot of documents at the Imperial War Museum which cover Lady Smith-Dorrien's fund, which is where these copies come from:

[centurion]

The Dorothy or Dolly bag may have been introduced by Lady Smith Dorrien to hold soldiers knick knacks in hospital but the basic bag has been around since a lot longer ago than WW1 and was originally a wedding accessory which a bride to be could make herself to give as personal presents containing jewellery to her bridesmaids. Traditionally in satin they can still be bought for this purpose from wedding shops. The bag has been said to have been originally introduced by Dorothy Osborne , a 17th century lady of letters*, for her marriage to Sir William Temple. The design with the draw string allowed the lady to carry her trinkets in it dangling from her wrist and still have both hands free and it was simple enough for even a bride with the most rudimentary skills with a needle to make.. Doubtless Lady Smith Dorrien had seen such bags at fashionable weddings and decided that the same design would also do for soldiers valuables

* and a friend of both Charles II and William III

[Lancashire Fusilier]

While reading The Roses of No Man's Land, I came across a reference to a 'dorothy bag':

Ginger

Ginger,

Of particular interest to yourself being in America, attached is an American Army Surgeon's reference to the ' Dorothy ' bag.

In the attached extract from the WW1 Journal of Harvey Cushing, an American Army Surgeon serving in France with the B.E.F., he refers to the wounded soldiers receiving their ' Smith - Dorrien Dolly - Dorothy - Comfort ' bags.

I had previously read that ' comfort ' bags were handmade at home, and then filled with a selection of ' comfort ' items, a shaving kit, soap, a pack of cards and or a small book to read, and even a short hand-written note from the woman who had made the bag, these bags were then sent off to the Front to be given to the troops.

The wounded soldiers were then given their ' Dorothy - Comfort ' bags on arrival at the Field Hospital, and these bags were presumably then also used to store any of their personal items.

Here is the extract from Army Surgeon, Harvey Cushing's WW1 Journal :-

" There were many lines of guns along the near slope, though it was impossible to detect them except by the flashes, and heavier guns were being fired from our right and rear. Doubtless field pieces had been moved up over the ridge by this time. There were some A.S.C. men and gunners at the summit of Mont Rouge, which like the Scherpenberg is surmounted by a windmill, and we gather that the operation has been a great success---the troops are still advancing and likely to wipe out the salient from Ypres to Ploegsteert ("Plug Street") Wood. Returning wounded report that they were over the third line by 4 a.m.---as good as the Canadians at Vimy who ate the breakfast prepared for the Bavarians. The view, if not so good as from Scherpenberg, is nevertheless very fine and one could just make out Ypres in the more northerly distance.

There was little if any appreciable artillery firing in our direction and, as a contrast to what at the moment was going on across the exposed valley to which the British have tenaciously clung so long, not ten yards from us on the slope below was a little old man in a sort of garden, busily mending two long brown windmill sails which were spread out on the grass---either uninterested or unaware. There also was an old church near by, a sort of Lourdes with a famous healing spring. It will be visited by more cripples than ever before in times to come, no doubt.

Resisting the temptation to linger, we take our way back to Bailleul, where is a heavy intake of wounded, and Bowlby makes sure that the rotation between the several C.C.S.'s is going on properly. Fewer casualties than expected, however, and the men for the most part are elated and proud of themselves. Those at No. 53 that have reached the wards and are non-evacuable already have their Smith-Dorrien (Dolly, Dorothy, Comfort, etc.) bags and are happy to be in bed.

And so in all the C.C.S.'s. A great tent for reception, with rapid recording of patients---some to go on, some to remain, and of these a large quota to the preoperation room for their turn, and others with chest wounds to their proper ward, or still others in critical shape to another place; and meanwhile an equally rapid evacuation takes place and a train is ready for 600 cases, and before they are off in come another 150, and why can't No. 11 take these, and No. 2 is overcrowded or another behind in its work. "

P.S. I spend a lot of time in the Carolinas, both North Carolina and South Carolina, and for North Carolina I fly into Charlotte, and have had many a nice meal in the excellent restaurants in Downtown Charlotte.

Regards,

LF

[catfishmo]

LF's post noted the bags could be called a number of things: Smith-Dorrien (Dolly, Dorothy, Comfort, etc.) bags. I came across this reference with another name:

"...Dorothy bags--more commonly known among the men as "Sister Susie bags"...

~from A VAD in France p 145.

~Ginger

[Lancashire Fusilier]

LF's post noted the bags could be called a number of things: Smith-Dorrien (Dolly, Dorothy, Comfort, etc.) bags. I came across this reference with another name:

"...Dorothy bags--more commonly known among the men as "Sister Susie bags"...

~from A VAD in France p 145.

~Ginger

Ginger,

Now we have another name for the bags to add to the list, very interesting.

Regards,

LF

[CGM]

Oh!

Sister Susie used to sew shirts for soldiers....

"Sister Susie's sewing shirts" was a 1914 song and the chorus is still a tongue twister now. Amongst others it was sung by Al Jolson (1916).

See a link HERE.

Obviously the troops extended her sewing to include the bags.

CGM

[catfishmo]

I am organizing a gazillion photos on Wiki commons and came across these photos of Dorothy Bags: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Dorothy_bag

[Guest]

Can you tell me the size of the bags please?

[Lynn Roffee]

Hello, does anyone have a photo please  ( or copy of the original template )  of a Dorothy Bag/Treasure bag/Ditty bag  for WW1, that they would be willing to share (for a shirt non profit article that I am writing). I have scoured newspapers of the time and have googled without success. There is a khaki one on a website but the service no./Regt. No. Doesn’t appear to be for British personnel. Many thanks

[docchippy]

Here is an example. This bag dates to 1915 is made of Calico with a drawstring top and oilcloth rectangular area writing detail in ink. 

[Lynn Roffee]

Hello, Thank you for responding. That’s a great photo and it’s good to know that one exists still, and even better at it originates from 1915. I’ve written a short article to be printed in my local WFA, though no guarantee it will be accepted. Again many thanks and I will of course credit - are you happy with me crediting you as Captain Doccchippy or ?

 

 

[Gunner Bailey]

Many of these bags were still in use in WW2 as factory workers gas mask bags. I've been told they were more convenient than the cardboard boxes and were often hung on the edge of the workers machinery, whereas the cardboard boxes tended to be left with workers coats / jackets.

[Lynn Roffee]

That’s interesting to note, I imagine he bags were much more practical to carry around. As soon as WW2 started Lady Smith Dorrien set up the bags again.  Pretty amazing that something so simple was in use over two wars and was volunteer lead.

[Wardog]

 This one looks unissued. Bought from an antiques shop in Honiton, Devon. Regards, Paul.

[Lynn Roffee]

Many thanks for sharing the photo. What an excellent find and in such good condition. Unless you say to contrary, i'll use your photo with credits if I may. There is no guarantee that my article will be published in my local WFA  monthly newsletter.

regards

[Wardog]

That's fine, my WFA branch is Thames Valley. For info. it is about 30cm wide by 34cm long. I wonder if it was made by regimentally connected ladies? Back when I bought it I thought it might be for dry rations. Regards, Paul.

[Lynn Roffee]

My local WFA is Leicestershire. It could well have been though from researching there were about  80,000 people making them. The fact that it has the Regt. on it might well have been made by someone related to that Regt. And of course, it could have been made for another purpose but the size would strongly suggest it was a Hospital Fund bag. Great find and to have - and in such good condition. Will advise if article published and photo used. Again thank you!
Lynn

[docchippy]

No problem using the pic i sent.  It was a bag used at Gallipoli during short term hospitalisation at W beach. Unfortunately after double amputation, sepsis set in and soldier DOW, effects returned to family after his burial on the peninsular in Dec 1915. 

 

 

Edited 7 December , 2019 by docchippy