bigbill Posted 10 May , 2014 Share Posted 10 May , 2014 Apologies - I did not make myself clear - I am referring to the Government's proposal to honour WW1 recipients of the Victoria Cross with a paving stone to be laid in their 'Home Town'. The question is, because most people move about quite a lot during their life, how is a 'Home Town' to be defined? In Edgar's case the places known to me are East Ham, Wanstead, Loughton, Hatfield, Bishopsteignston. The Hatfield address appears for both himself and his bride on their Marriage Certificate so may possibly be an accommodation address. In my experience, persons are usually considered to be a son or daughter of wherever they were born, and Edgar spent at least the first seventeen years of his life at his birthplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 10 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2014 No problem although this thread is about the maintainance of VC graves but on your query I would guess that right now the paving stone will be laid in Wanstead if that is the information available. Regards Norman PS Is there a plaque in memory of this man like my example in Torquay Crematorium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandsworth Posted 10 May , 2014 Share Posted 10 May , 2014 Norman, I went to the crematorium office to find out about the 3 vc holders cremated in Torquay and I didn't see any, all the best Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 10 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2014 Thanks for that Rob, I am surprised that there are apparently no tributes to the VC holders cremated there. I may of course be totally wrong but does this mean that their courage and passing is completely unrecorded? I of course imply no disrespect to anyone by these comments and perhaps the heroes are remembered somewhere, I certainly hope so. Regards Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 11 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 11 May , 2014 These are the three Victoria Cross holders who were cremated at Torquay Crematorium all awarded the highest medal for courage in the face of the enemy during WW1. Whist I appreciate that there may be good reasons why these are not commemorated it seems to me to be extremely unfortunate that their bravery has remained unmarked. I appreciate that there may of course be some form of memorial to these men somewhere and if so it would be good to be informed if any exist. Major Arthur Fleming-Sandes VC Hohenzollern Redoubt, France 29 September 1915 Corporal James Hutchinson VC Ficheux, France 28 June 1916 Edgar Myles VC Sanna-i-Yat, Mesopotamia 9 April 1916 Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandsworth Posted 11 May , 2014 Share Posted 11 May , 2014 Norman The only one I've come across, and I've done quite a bit of looking, is to James Hutchinson, and is located in the primary school he attended. http://www.ukniwm.org.uk/server/show/conMemorial.44039/fromUkniwmSearch/1. I've also seen some stuff in their regimental museums. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 11 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 11 May , 2014 Thanks for all the efforts you have made Rob we seem to have stumbled on a somewhat “grey area” here as regards memorials to those Victoria Cross holders who have survived the war died and then were cremated. In my view it is a great shame that to all intents and purposes their memory has been as it were blotted out from the view of the public at large when in the other two circumstances, death within the CWGC time-band when a formal headstone is raised or the name and VC is included on a memorial to the missing plus the second circumstance when the recipient has the good fortune to survive the war and upon death is buried in a family plot where the fact he was a holder of the VC is recorded ensures that they are not forgotten. In the case of cremation I can only relate the fact that here in Bristol there is a facility for a memorial plaque to be affixed in the garden of remembrance as shown in my post No.60 and in this case I believe the initiative for this came not from the family but from a concerned person. I wonder just how many other VC holders fall into this category, something we will never know unless a full inventory is undertaken I suppose although as in the case I relate above there is scope for concerned individuals to try and ensure that these heroes are not forgotten. Regards Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 11 May , 2014 Share Posted 11 May , 2014 .................here in Bristol there is a facility for a memorial plaque to be affixed in the garden of remembrance as shown in my post No.60 and in this case I believe the initiative for this came not from the family but from a concerned person.................. Regards Norman I'm wondering if this is a memorial with a ten year lease. Or has it been arranged in perpetuity, if this is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 11 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 11 May , 2014 I understand that it is permanent, the photo of course cannot show this but it made of black polished granite and the carvings are excellent. Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 11 May , 2014 Share Posted 11 May , 2014 Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandsworth Posted 11 May , 2014 Share Posted 11 May , 2014 Norman I have been in contact with the trust about the men from Torquay, and have asked if they are able to help in the case of cremations having no lasting memorials. I will let you know there reply. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 11 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 11 May , 2014 Well done Rob Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 12 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 12 May , 2014 On the subject of memorial plaques for those Victoria Cross holders who survived the war and were cremated I paid a visit to Arnos Vale Cemetery here in Bristol to ascertain just what the situation is as regards the erection of such plaques. Please be aware that what follows applies only to this place which is unique in that whilst the ground is owned by the City Council the graves, buildings and memorials are under the stewardship of a charitable trust who were instrumental in saving this huge and historic place from being developed as housing land. No doubt other locations will vary in both the cost of plaques and the time-scale allowed for display, the graves or memorials to VC holders in Arnos Vale are well cared for and in good condition. The basic prices and conditions are as follows (Inc VAT) Size 12ins by 6ins / 20 characters max £450 Size 12ins by 12ins / 20 characters max £850 / £900 Special plaques (Lt Col Burges etc) individually priced The wall plaque will be supplied for 25 years after which it will be removed unless a further fee is paid (unknown at this time). There are basic small plaques available at less cost but these are renewable for a fee after 10 years. This is the present view of memorial plaques as detailed above; Lt Col Burges VC is centre right, In my opinion there is a huge imbalance in the way we presently treat our VC heroes when these heroes survive the war and are eventually cremated. Regards Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandsworth Posted 12 May , 2014 Share Posted 12 May , 2014 Norman They said there is a provision to provided memorials for the vc winners with no memorial, but there priority must be for the existing memorials at risk. which is understandable. Hopefully there photo appeal will help identify the vc winners that fall into this category. All the best Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 12 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 12 May , 2014 Thanks Rob that would appear sensible, the provision of memorial plaques may be more suited to local efforts with the cooperation of the families of course. There must be something wrong here in that such brave men may not be recorded at all and their courage will be forgotten when all those who sadly fell in service will in most cases have a CWGC headstone in perpetuity, be recorded on a memorial to the missing in perpetuity, have their name on a local UK memorial or be buried in a family plot where efforts are made to maintain the grave in honour of their bravery when those we have discussed seem to completely slip through the net something which in my view is unacceptable. Regards Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 15 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 15 May , 2014 An interesting article from October 2013, I wonder whether anything has been done? Express http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/434675/Abandoned-and-decaying-the-grave-of-millionaire-Lord-March-s-VC-hero-ancestor Wilbraham Lennox VC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbraham_Oates_Lennox Is there anyone in or near to Brighton who can post a photo? Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchener's Bugle Posted 16 May , 2014 Share Posted 16 May , 2014 Very interesting about the plaques.... I am looking into a VC Winner who was cremated and his ashes spead in the garden of remembrance at the local cemetery but there is nothing to record him. That will have to change!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 19 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2014 I agree, there must be an affordable and practical way to record the courage and passing of these men for "Their names should not be blotted out" Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 29 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 29 May , 2014 Newspaper Article Coventry Observer http://www.coventryobserver.co.uk/2014/05/28/news-Graves-of-VC-heroes-to-be--restorated-ahead-of-centenary-107555.html Norman PS At this rate that £100K is not going to last long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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