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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

military uniform? and cap badge query


Honora

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Dear All

A friend has asked me to find anything I can about this soldier, Goerge Williams - we know he had connections to Somerset and South Wales.

He was a railway labourer before the war. Can anyone identfy the cap badge - sorry it's not clearer this is the only image available, and is the uniform in the family group a militaryone?

20f3qmv.jpg

kd5no2.jpg

I've also taken a liberty of posting a photo on the 'Who is this?' - hoping that anyone can join such a fascinating thread.

Many thanks in advance for your help

Honora

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Thanks Gary

what a quick answer - I only left the laptop to upload the post by itself! I'll check this - how about the 'uniform' in the family photo?

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He was George Williams, b. c. 1879, wife's name Louisa, he survived the war. So this makes it all the more difficult - I've been trawling through Ancestry but there are a lot of this name.

He worked as a platelayer on the railway (1911 census) or in the pit possibly, but wouldn't have thought platelayers wore a uniform - so perhaps he was 'elevated' in the service on the railway - photo would seem to have been taken about 1913/4 judging by ages of the children.

So this then might be the answer - railway employer in 1913, joined (conscripted) later in war. Having checked an image of South Wales Borderers badge - it does have the look of it - you can tell I'm a beginner at this game.

Many thanks for your interest and help

Honora

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Not an army uniform . No breast pockets no buttons. [family group].

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I really ddn't think it was an army uniform - but his family didn't think he served in any other uniformed capacity so I just wondered if it could have been one of those makeshift blue suits from the early part of the war that I think I've heard about, but I agree, railway is more likely especially taking his age into account.

I'm assuming everyone is in agreement the cap badge is probably South West Borderers.

Many thanks all of you.

Honora.

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The cap badge is the South Wales Borderers, no doubt about it.

The other uniform looks railways probably, but a Kitchener Blue with SWB collars is a remote possibility I assume.

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Definitely the SWB cap badge. From what I remember of the Kitchener Blue uniform I'd day the collars look wrong but they could be SWB shoulder titles worn on the collar, a closer look may reveal more

Jon

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Kitchener Blue with SWB collars is a remote possibility I assume.

Beat me to it by milliseconds - and I don't think it remote; I think it quite possible.

Cheers,

GT.

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The collar badges are different and . Also, one is along the collar[r] and the other across the collar.

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joined (conscripted) later in war.

In the army photo, his cap is the 'stiff' 1905 pattern; and his tunic is the Simplified type - issued end of 1914/ early 1915. That would point to earlier in the war rather than later.

Cheers,

GT.

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Definitely South Wales Borderers cap badge on the head dress and the other image is indeed Kitchener Blues. I do know that one Service battalion wore shoulder titles as its collar badges, but I am unsure which one it was. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/lifestyle/nostalgia/welsh-history-month-brethyn-llwyd-3663605

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Could be a GPO Telegram person, seems to have a belt with a metal clasp or buckle ?

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I too noticed this but I think the 'belt' is actually a ribbon in the childs hair. The shape of the collar badges could suggest SWB, the difference in size could be attributed to the lighting but it would be odd to fasten badges with 2 lugs in such a fashion, that said the SWB fielded 8 service battalions during the war, there is photographic evidence showing the 6th with circular tin badges on their collars so these can be discounted with regards to the uniform in the family group, the 6th were formed as a pioneer battalion and so may have attracted men of his calling. Providing any further details on George, the AVL for 1918 (Absent Voters List) may still exist for his last known address or local papers may hold further information

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Many thanks everyone for all of this - I'm learning so much from you all - my thought was blues - but being such a beginner trust myself and didn't like to suggest it - and I now know 'Kitchener blues'.

Unusual for a working class married man with a family to volunteer so early? or perhaps not - one can never know reasons at this distance in time. I will take all this information back to my friend and she will be delighted I'm sure - and it may also trigger other information about him. I will trawl through Ancestry regarding his very 'unusual name' when I have a little/lot more time to spare,

In the meantime - thank you all and Happy Easter!

Honora

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Ps meant to say - thanks Grovetown for the cap and uniform details dates - I now need to go through other photos to check their shapes and designs! As I said we learn all the time.

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