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Remembered Today:

Kite Balloons at Salonika


Ian Burns

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The RFC provided several Kite Balloon Sections (KBS) for service on the Salonika Front.

The first 17 KBS arriving in September 1916.

Prior to the RFC arriving the balloon Ship HMS Canning had landed her 7 KBS, RNAS, on 24 May 1916, to be was attached to 22nd Division.

Canning then took aboard the remains of LZ85 and sailed for home.

It is possible that the naval KBS was active during the Battle of Horseshoe Hill, 10-18 August 1916, and possibly at the Battle of Machukovo, 13-14 September. Although I have been unable to find any supporting documentation.

7 KBS was recalled to the UK in October 1916 (AIR 1/658/17/122/582).

Any help, information, photographs will be most welcome.

I am looking for this information to include in an article on balloon ships at Gallipoli for Cross and Cockade.

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The RFC provided several Kite Balloon Sections (KBS) for service on the Salonika Front.

The first 17 KBS arriving in September 1916.

Prior to the RFC arriving the balloon Ship HMS Canning had landed her 7 KBS, RNAS, on 24 May 1916, to be was attached to 22nd Division.

Canning then took aboard the remains of LZ85 and sailed for home.

Ian,

I have some nice Salonika Kite Ballon photos in my photo file, which I am sure you will find interesting.

I shall post them separately for you.

The first show HMS Canning anchored off Salonika with a Kite Balloon aloft, dated November 1915.

Regards,

LF

Imperial War Museum SP515 This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

post-63666-0-04148400-1396560626_thumb.j

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A Kite Balloon starting to ascend on observation duty in the Struma Valley.

LF

Imperial War Museum HU80188 This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

post-63666-0-89571500-1396560766_thumb.j

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A Kite Balloon Observation Post at Karramuddh between Salonika and Dorian.

LF

Imperial War Museum Q27398 This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

post-63666-0-41842400-1396560886_thumb.j

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Thanks LF,

I have a copy of the IWM Canning image already.

The Drachen on the Struma Front I have seen and been wondering about. 7 KBS used a British built (by C G Spencer and Sons) Drachen, and the man standing by the trestle does have a naval appearance, but...

The image is one of a collection dated 1917. So, it is probably 17 KBS, RFC, it might possibly be from 26 or 27 KBS, RFC, they arrived in February 1917.

I love the very casual poses of everyone in the photo.

The final one is new to me, but shows a later Caquot type balloon.

Thanks for the images, I really do appreciate the effort.

Ian

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I love the very casual poses of everyone in the photo.

Thanks for the images, I really do appreciate the effort.

Ian

Ian,

I agree, almost like they are watching cricket on a Summer afternoon.

Anyway, I hoped they helped in some way, should I see anymore I shall post them and let you know.

Regards,

LF

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Don't know about 7 KBS... the French 35e Compagnie d'Aérostiers was operating with British XII Corps for both Horseshoe Hill and Machukovo.

Adrian

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Hmmm.

Thanks Adrian,

There is always a tendency to overlook our French allies - a very British failing I fear.

My library is strong on naval and aviation (my major interests), but weak militarily. So, all I have to hand on Salonika is Palmer's The Gardeners of Salonika, in which the French Army is almost an afterthought.

Any additional education you can provide would be most welcome.

Ian

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Hi Ian,

How's your French?!

The diary of 35e Cie d'Aérostiers is here...

http://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/fr/ark:/40699/e0052802820105d9/52802820f3893

(I find the viewer works a lot better in Chrome than IE)

Unfortunately, the period from 1 Jan (when they were still in France) until 14 Aug 1916 is missing - so the first few days of Horseshoe Hill aren't covered.

But it looks like they may not have been involved anyway, as the entry for 16 Aug states that it's the first occasion where the commander has received the order to inflate the balloon since his arrival with the Armée d'Orient.

There are a couple of useful maps of their camps and stations for the period in question on pages 95, 102 and 108, also showing enemy gun positions & encampments observed and the location of the ?Bulgarian Drachen near Kara Ogular.

Must say I'm intrigued by the incident on 15 September when, after 9 hrs aloft, the observer MdL Duchesne jumped to his death from 1000m "probablement sous le coup de l'émotion d'un incident réçent"!! With the balloon so much lighter and the winds increasing in the afternoon, the crew were unable to bring it down until 8.55 the next morning.

Adrian

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Adrian,

Many thanks, much, much more than I was expecting/hoping for.

My French is lousy, but my wife is Canadian and hence has a working knowledge of the language. Between us I'm sure we can extract more than I will require!

The maps are quite wonderful. I love the little cartoon of the balloon and tents for the camps!

So, Duchesne appears to have jumped (with or without (?) his parachute) and come down in the marsh adjacent to the lake. One wonders at what 'emotion' could have caused that? There is no mention, but I wonder if there was a enemy aeroplane buzzing around. I notice they were working with 'le XII C.A. Anglais' at the time.

This really is wonderful stuff. Would that British records were as well presented :angry2:

Very many thanks

Ian

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  • 2 weeks later...

By 1917 almost all (and possibly just all) balloon units on both sides had re equipped with Caquot style balloons as opposed to Drachen about the only forces in the world still trying to catch up were the Americans

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Thanks Andy. They are indeed quite wonderful illustrations. There are another set in Cross and Cockade Journal Vol 44 N 4, pp.246-259, Winter 2013. Same artist I think, with an account of RFC/RAF KBS in Salonika.

Centurion. You are quite correct there. Interestingly, the Drachen was originally developed in Germany but copied by France (from a Belgian pre-war purchase) and the Caquot, developed in France but copied by Germany, after one drifted across the lines. Both versions were manufactured in Britain by C G Spencer and Sons. There is a series of photos of USS Huntington with a Drachen aloft taken at Pensacola in late 1917.

Quite when the Caquot reached Salonika I'm not sure. Earliest records indicate that they may have arrived by February 1917. The first Caquot to enter RNAS service was a Type M on 29 May 1916 delivered to HMS Campania at Scapa Flow, the first RFC Type M was delivered on 6 June 1916. So, early in 1917 is not bad for a sideshow!

If anyone is truly interested in the use of KBs in WW1 I can recommend Dan-San Abbott, Gas Bags, Dragons and Elephants (WW1 Aero, No 204 and 205, 2010), copies can be purchased online from WW1 Aero.

It is likely to be the best word on the subject for quite a while.

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Thanks Andy. They are indeed quite wonderful illustrations. There are another set in Cross and Cockade Journal Vol 44 N 4, pp.246-259, Winter 2013. Same artist I think, with an account of RFC/RAF KBS in Salonika.

Centurion. You are quite correct there. Interestingly, the Drachen was originally developed in Germany but copied by France (from a Belgian pre-war purchase) and the Caquot, developed in France but copied by Germany, after one drifted across the lines. Both versions were manufactured in Britain by C G Spencer and Sons. There is a series of photos of USS Huntington with a Drachen aloft taken at Pensacola in late 1917.

Quite when the Caquot reached Salonika I'm not sure. Earliest records indicate that they may have arrived by February 1917. The first Caquot to enter RNAS service was a Type M on 29 May 1916 delivered to HMS Campania at Scapa Flow, the first RFC Type M was delivered on 6 June 1916. So, early in 1917 is not bad for a sideshow!

If anyone is truly interested in the use of KBs in WW1 I can recommend Dan-San Abbott, Gas Bags, Dragons and Elephants (WW1 Aero, No 204 and 205, 2010), copies can be purchased online from WW1 Aero.

It is likely to be the best word on the subject for quite a while.

Not quite right Charles Spencer "acquired" copies of all the Drachen design drawings before the war. Quite how remains a mystery but it appears not legally and passed copies on to the French. Germany did sell drachen to Belgium and the Imperial Russian Navy before the war. Spencer was supposed to build the first British Drachens but could not obtain the material needed at first so the one sent to Gallipoli had to be begged from the French who later supplied Spencer with the material he needed. The Germany copy of the Caquot was NOT based on a captured model. It was produced using photos etc and so whilst externally the same did not have the cunning set of inter connected chambers in the air (not hydrogen) filled tail fins which allowed them to stiffen and relax depending on wind direction and speed and keep the balloon head to wind better. (Caquot was the leading world expert on air and water flow dynamics) As a result the German R balloons although more stable than the Drachen were never as stable as those used by the Allies. An American balloon did come loose in a high wind and its crew disobeyed standing orders to bale out and instead managed to land it - behind the German lines thus giving the Germans access to its secrets but this was late in 1918 and they were able to make little or no use of them before the war ended.

I mentioned the switch over to Caquot as most of the photos on this thread are of Drachen types and therefore probably taken no later than mid 1916

I've done a fairly extensive series of essays on balloons and parachutes on this forum and if the suggestion for our own magazine ever flies I was intending to update and annotate them and submit them.

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Not quite right Charles Spencer "acquired" copies of all the Drachen design drawings before the war. Quite how remains a mystery but it appears not legally and passed copies on to the French. Germany did sell drachen to Belgium and the Imperial Russian Navy before the war. Spencer was supposed to build the first British Drachens but could not obtain the material needed at first so the one sent to Gallipoli had to be begged from the French who later supplied Spencer with the material he needed.

That may be true, but the accepted story is that the French copied the design from a 600m3 German Drachen sold to the Belgians pre-war. When the RNAS Captive Balloon Detachment, who had be attempting to use old spherical balloons, saw the Belgian KB and made enquiries they were told about the French copies. Wing Commander E M Maitland then sent J D Mackworth, together with Major C E Waterlow, RE, to Chalais Meudon to find out more about the KB. The French generously gifted two early production 800m3 Captive-ballons to the British. The first of these was used to set up the Balloon Training School at Roehampton, the second was delivered to Vickers at Barrow-in-Furness, as the only UK company with any experience in LTA work. This was measured and drawn up and, after some searching, Spencer's were given the contract.

Lacking documentary evidence, which if you have I'd love to see and be corrected, I am holding to the official story.

I mentioned the switch over to Caquot as most of the photos on this thread are of Drachen types and therefore probably taken no later than mid 1916

There is always an 'exception that proves the rule.' HMS Manica was still operating a Drachen off East Africa (following a refit and re-equipment in the UK late in 1915/early 1916) in 1917. Some sideshows were just too far away to rate being re-supplied with the newest equipment.

Now, parachutes are another misunderstood aspect of KBs - at least to me. Dates for adoption are very hard to find. I have found reference to French use in Salonika in September 1916, but I'm sure Western Front use must be much earlier. Also, the design and development of British KB parachutes is a very grey area, I have been unable to locate when, where and what type. I'll go looking for your Forum posts.

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On 16/04/2014 at 23:45, Ian Burns said:

Not quite right Charles Spencer "acquired" copies of all the Drachen design drawings before the war. Quite how remains a mystery but it appears not legally and passed copies on to the French. Germany did sell drachen to Belgium and the Imperial Russian Navy before the war. Spencer was supposed to build the first British Drachens but could not obtain the material needed at first so the one sent to Gallipoli had to be begged from the French who later supplied Spencer with the material he needed.

That may be true, but the accepted story is that the French copied the design from a 600m3 German Drachen sold to the Belgians pre-war. When the RNAS Captive Balloon Detachment, who had be attempting to use old spherical balloons, saw the Belgian KB and made enquiries they were told about the French copies. Wing Commander E M Maitland then sent J D Mackworth, together with Major C E Waterlow, RE, to Chalais Meudon to find out more about the KB. The French generously gifted two early production 800m3 Captive-ballons to the British. The first of these was used to set up the Balloon Training School at Roehampton, the second was delivered to Vickers at Barrow-in-Furness, as the only UK company with any experience in LTA work. This was measured and drawn up and, after some searching, Spencer's were given the contract.

Lacking documentary evidence, which if you have I'd love to see and be corrected, I am holding to the official story.

I mentioned the switch over to Caquot as most of the photos on this thread are of Drachen types and therefore probably taken no later than mid 1916

There is always an 'exception that proves the rule.' HMS Manica was still operating a Drachen off East Africa (following a refit and re-equipment in the UK late in 1915/early 1916) in 1917. Some sideshows were just too far away to rate being re-supplied with the newest equipment.

Now, parachutes are another misunderstood aspect of KBs - at least to me. Dates for adoption are very hard to find. I have found reference to French use in Salonika in September 1916, but I'm sure Western Front use must be much earlier. Also, the design and development of British KB parachutes is a very grey area, I have been unable to locate when, where and what type. I'll go looking for your Forum posts.

The following may of interest - they do need some updating and notation/references as I have said but are essentially sound

 
 
BTW the reason why HMS Mancia retained her Drachen has absolutely nothing to do with remoteness of theatre it is much simpler - her hold wouldn't take a Caguot! She could barely manage the slimmer Drachen.
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Thanks for the references I'm just about to go look at them.

But I had to check on the balloon hold first...

As first completed, of course, Manica just had a balloon deck over the forward holds. After her second conversion her new balloon hold was only 92 ft x 30 ft.

HMS Canning, which had a balloon hold for the very start, was not much bigger at 100 ft by (scaled from a drawing) approx. 32 ft.

Both these sets of dimensions come from AIR 1/2103/207/31.

The RNAS Kite Balloon Training Manual, 1917, gives the dimensions of a Drachen as 79.2 ft x 22.4 ft, and a Caquot M as 82 ft x 26 ft 7in extending to 40 ft 8in over the stabilizers.

So the Drachen would fit in both of them, but as you say not the Caquot. Although a semi-inflated Caquot might have been squeezed in. Thanks for pointing this out, I probably would never have checked.

But it raises the question of how Canning handled Caquots whilst serving a Grand Fleet Balloon Depot Ship in 1917/18?

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Thanks for the references I'm just about to go look at them.

But I had to check on the balloon hold first...

As first completed, of course, Manica just had a balloon deck over the forward holds. After her second conversion her new balloon hold was only 92 ft x 30 ft.

HMS Canning, which had a balloon hold for the very start, was not much bigger at 100 ft by (scaled from a drawing) approx. 32 ft.

Both these sets of dimensions come from AIR 1/2103/207/31.

The RNAS Kite Balloon Training Manual, 1917, gives the dimensions of a Drachen as 79.2 ft x 22.4 ft, and a Caquot M as 82 ft x 26 ft 7in extending to 40 ft 8in over the stabilizers.

So the Drachen would fit in both of them, but as you say not the Caquot. Although a semi-inflated Caquot might have been squeezed in. Thanks for pointing this out, I probably would never have checked.

But it raises the question of how Canning handled Caquots whilst serving a Grand Fleet Balloon Depot Ship in 1917/18?

You've missed a vital stat - the depth of the hold (and the size of the winch therein). Mancia could not close the hatches when the balloon was inflated and so could not operate in rough weather (the balloon had either to be deflated or put ashore). (Photos show that the Drachen in the Mancia was a very tight fit indeed) Not sure about Canning but I believe she could. However Drachens came in a range of sizes .The stabilisers on the Caquots were not inflated when the balloon was not in flight (as I've said else where they were not hydrogen filled but inflated with ordinary air by the action of the wind [as indeed was the sac on a Drachen] ) and so could be folded when the balloon was stowed. Statistics from the RNAS training manual may be accurate but also misleading as the balloons used for training may not have been the same models as used operationally. For example the Caquot originally came in two sizes L and M but by the time the balloon was being used operationally there were 4 sizes P, P2, M2 and R and the need to achieve greater altitudes with more kit etc had resulted in increases in size M2 was bigger than M. I believe that the original L and M types were used for training. One of the limitations on deploying the larger balloons was the need for a bigger and more powerful winch. The French navy used the P and P2 types (mainly for U boat and mine spotting), whilst the USN carried the much larger R on battleships as it could take up three observers and range finding kit considered necessary for gunnery control in a capital ship. I am in contact with a member of the USMC who has been commissioned to write a history of the Corps air operations and as this does not include balloons (even though they looked after the USN's balloon operations) they have agreed to furbish me with the results of their research in this area.

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Hmm. I took on the balloon ships at Gallipoli as I thought it would be straightforward! How wrong can you be?

I was thinking of looking at KBs with the Grand Fleet later on, but now think I will have to sort out all the Caquot variants before going that way.

Just a thought. The only photos I have seen of Manica post Gallipoli were in an article in Cross and Cockade by AVM Peter Dye in Royal Naval Air Service: Operations in German East Africa 1914-1918, Part 3 (V38 N1, 2007). None of these, from the album of Flt Lt D Gill commanding 1 KBS at the time, show Manica with the balloon down. However, there is an image in the Gill Album of Manica where the balloon cannot be seen, but then neither can the cable in other photos... (http://gillww1.wordpress.com/2012/04/20/flt-cmdr-david-gill/)

We have to be aware that any photos of Manica, or Hector, at Gallipoli were before she had a balloon hold - there was just a balloon deck over the hold covers, until the December 1915 refit back in the UK. Photos of both ships with the balloon down clearly show the upper half of the balloon over the canvas side screens.

Anyway, thanks for sharing all your information. It has given me much to consider and research :glare:

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There are a number of references to balloon ships at Gallipoli in some older issues of OTF. oldweather.org has the Mancia's deck logs for the post Gallipoli period. I did a part of them. They should be posted on this site.

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Hmm. I took on the balloon ships at Gallipoli as I thought it would be straightforward! How wrong can you be?

I was thinking of looking at KBs with the Grand Fleet later on, but now think I will have to sort out all the Caquot variants before going that way.

Just a thought. The only photos I have seen of Manica post Gallipoli were in an article in Cross and Cockade by AVM Peter Dye in Royal Naval Air Service: Operations in German East Africa 1914-1918, Part 3 (V38 N1, 2007). None of these, from the album of Flt Lt D Gill commanding 1 KBS at the time, show Manica with the balloon down. However, there is an image in the Gill Album of Manica where the balloon cannot be seen, but then neither can the cable in other photos... (http://gillww1.wordpress.com/2012/04/20/flt-cmdr-david-gill/)

We have to be aware that any photos of Manica, or Hector, at Gallipoli were before she had a balloon hold - there was just a balloon deck over the hold covers, until the December 1915 refit back in the UK. Photos of both ships with the balloon down clearly show the upper half of the balloon over the canvas side screens.

Anyway, thanks for sharing all your information. It has given me much to consider and research :glare:

Balloons in holds - as I said a tight fit

post-9885-0-40093600-1397896741_thumb.jp

post-9885-0-72071800-1397896829_thumb.jp

post-9885-0-15244700-1397897078_thumb.jp

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Re: Balloon partly in hold. - No.

This is Hector, often misidentified as Manica, she had a balloon deck only, lying over the hatch coamings. The inflated balloon is on the deck.

To identify Hector look for the kingpost + light wireless mast immediately fwd of bridge, the built up hull at aft end of 'promenade' deck, and mast stepped on poop deckhouse. Manica had none of these features.

Re: Balloons in holds.

Top Left - Manica at Gallipoli. The balloon is only partially inflated and rests on the balloon deck. A very interesting photo this one - note the winch located on port side of the deck just forward of the bridge, odd place to put it! Probably not enough room on the centre-line. With the balloon inflated it must have been a very tight space.

The other two are Manica but in East Africa after a second conversion that added the balloon hold. As you say a very tight fit!

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James.

Re: Log books - excellent work you and others are doing on transcribing the log books. My (and many others) thanks.

For some reason none of the balloon ship log books for Gallipoli appear to have survived. Conspiracy theorists could have a field day, but I suspect it was because they were mostly commissioned a fleet messengers rather than actual warships.

If you could point me at the issues of OTF I would be grateful.

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If Hector did not have a hold then the balloon must be part deflated

With regard to carrying Caquots it's possible that the balloon ships were not used to carry them in the hold, there are plenty of photos showing Caquots being flown from Destroyers, Cruisers and Battleships. Caquots could fly safely in winds up to 20 mph greater that was possible with a drachen. This meant that a destroyer with a winch at the stern could still reach it's maximum speed whilst towing a Caquot and therefore keep station on the fleet. As these balloons were used primarily for mine and submarine spotting it was important that they did keep up with the fleet which the balloon ships would not have been able to do. I think it is likely that these were used as true base ships carrying their gas generators to top up the various Caquots in service with the fleet and providing maintenance and repair facilities. The larger Caquots would certainly not have fitted in their holds anyway and there were many more naval Caquots in use than there were balloon ships. British destroyers from Queenstown were certainly tasked with providing balloon towing facilities to the US Navy but the balloons themselves seem to have been located on shore in Ireland when not being used.

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