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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Various Soldiers on Malvern Worcestershire School Memorial


sdjknox

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Dear All,

After some help please with tracking down some details of with which regiment some of the soldiers served with and where they are buried/remembered. The intention is that the current children at this school, formerly known as Malvern Link County School, may gain knowledge of the names so that they become more than just names on a lovely wooden memorial within the current school. I have had some success myself but drawn a blank with some.

Ernest Bird from the 1911 census believed to be Ernest Arthur Bird 4 Holey Bank West Malvern born 1899. Not certain of regimental or CWGC facts. Help please!

Percy J Bishop from the 1911 census Percy J Bishop Merton Road Malvern Link born 1899. John Percy Bishop died 30/5/18 Aged 19 private No 40192 North Staffordshire Regiment 8th Battalion Soissons Memorial (parents address ties up with the census address and parents names) DONE!

Walter E Burston from the 1911 census believed to be Eastner Cottages Quest Hills Road Malvern Link born 1898. Best fit is died 6/7/16 Gunner 2355 Royal Field Artillery Longuenesse Souvenir Cemetery. DONE!

Charles E Hammond from the 1911 census Ryecroft West Malvern born 1897 from the CWGC Private 2889 died 2/10/1916 Worcestershire Regiment buried Pont-Du-Hem Military Cemetery La Gorgue DONE!

Cyril H Panter no census record (perhaps I missed it) from the CWGC site Cyril Harley Panter Son of Alfred James and Nellie Panter of 4 Wellingtonice Spring Gardens Malvern Link Malvern

Private 45953 died 5/9/1918 aged 18 Royal Berkshire Regiment 8th Battalion buried Mericourt-L'Abbe Communal Cemetery Extension. DONE!

Eric Ian K Dent from the Attestation Record lived at Hollyhurst Richmond Road Malvern Link, attested 12-10-15 in Birmingham and was posted 12-1-15. Unfortunately I couldn't read to what regiment. Surprisingly I can find no record on the CWGC site. Surely the unusual 3 initials should help? Help please!

Thanks to anyone who has the time to assist me

Steve Knox

post-71386-0-67632300-1396546126_thumb.j

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Your Ian Dent was on CWGC

DENT, ERIC IAN KIRKUP. Rank: Private. Service No: 722726. Date of Death: 08/06/1917. Age: 19.
Regiment/Service: London Regiment. 1st/24th Bn.
Grave Reference: II. D. 22. Cemetery: MENDINGHEM MILITARY CEMETERY
Additional Information: Son of Sam J. and Caroline Dent, of "Hollyhurst," Richmond Rd., Malvern Link, Malvern.
sorry, can't be so helpful for Ernest, is this a brother?
BIRD, GEORGE. Rank: Lance Corporal. Service No: P/8367. Date of Death: 22/01/1919. Age: 27.
Regiment/Service: Military Police Corps.
Grave Reference: Cemetery: STORRIDGE (ST. JOHN THE EVANGELIST) CHURCHYARD
Additional Information: Son of John Bird; husband of Helen Bird, of The Clover, Bromyard, Worcester. Born at Birchwood, Malvern, Worcs.
This may be your Ernest, father also John as above; possibly also born in Malvern and serving in a Worcestershire Regiment....
BIRD, ERNEST. Rank: Private. Service No: 9416. Date of Death: 03/03/1915. Age: 29.
Regiment/Service: Worcestershire Regiment. 2nd Bn.
Grave Reference: 2. 742. Cemetery: BENTLEY CEMETERY, STAFFORDSHIRE
Additional Information: Son of John and Jane Bird, of 38, New Road, Willenhall, Staffs.
One aspect the children might pick up on is the unusual use of soldiers slang for Mending'em, Bandag'em and Dosing'em Cemeteries later becoming the "official" cemetery names
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Hi

Re Mr Dent.

He is shown on the CWGC site as Eric Ian Kirkup Dent. He served with the 24 London Regiment as Private 5894 and later as Private 722726. His Medal Index Card is shown on Ancestry as Eric J K Dent

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Kevin,

Thanks very much for the quick response, sorry it proved so easy for you on Eric Dent!

Unfortunately I don't think George is a brother of Ernest Bird, in your favour is that Birchwood is not far from Malvern Link. I did not write down the full sibling list of the Bird family but the father was Frances and mother Elizabeth which does not tie up with your brother suggestion detail in your post.

Still a mystery to be solved.

Steve

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Hi HMSK212,

Thanks for confirming the details of Eric Ian Kirkup Dent. Don't know why I couldn't find him!

Steve

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Malvern Remembers has this information on the website:

Malvern Link Council School
(Somers Park School)

thtagworccc.jpg

Name Brief Service Details

Ernest BIRD 28901 Pte 17th Notts & Derby Regiment KIA France or Flanders 3/9/16

Percy John BISHOP 40192 Sgt 8th North Staffordshire Regiment KIA France or Flanders 30/5/18

Walter Edward BURSTON 2355 Gnr B/306 Brigade Royal Field Artillery DOW France 6/7/16

Eric Ian Kirkup DENT 722726 Pte 1/24th London Regiment DOW France or Flanders 8/6/17 Charles Edward HAMMOND 2889 Pte 2/8th Worcestershire Regiment KIA France or Flanders 2/10/16

Cyril Harley PANTER 45953 Pte 8th Royal Berkshire Regiment Killed France or Flanders 5/9/18

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Follow the Ernest BIRD link above to understand why I have posted this information:

1911 census:

ERNEST BIRD

BOARDER

Male
Year Of Birth 1899
Age 12
Occupation SCHOOL
Address CHOIR SCHOOL NEWLAND MALVERN
Parish NEWLAND
County Worcestershire
Country ENGLAND
Where Born GLAMORGAN WENVOE

Registration District UPTON ON SEVERN
Registration District Number 378
Sub District MALVERN
Enumeration District 12
SubDistrict Number 1

Edited to add - taken from the above Ernest BIRD link....In September 1916, the Malvern News reported that: "Ernest Bird, formerly a Newland choir boy has been killed in France whilst being carried to the Ambulance."

Follow the link for more.

CGM

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CWGC:

BIRD, E

Rank: Private
Service No: 28901
Date of Death: 03/09/1916
Regiment/Service: Sherwood Foresters (Notts and Derby Regiment) 17th Bn.
Grave Reference: F. 14.
Cemetery: KNIGHTSBRIDGE CEMETERY, MESNIL-MARTINSART

Additional Information:

____________

This doesn't really solve your mystery.......

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Dear All,

................. Ernest Bird from the 1911 census believed to be Ernest Arthur Bird 4 Holey Bank West Malvern born 1899. Not certain of regimental or CWGC facts. Help please!.................

Steve Knox

I did start by looking at Ernest Arthur BIRD.

I wondered if he died at home, from wounds or illness, and the CWGC had not received notification of his death.

I did not find a death in the relevant period but I did find this:

England & Wales deaths 1837-2007

ERNEST ARTHUR BIRD

BIRTH: 9/03/1898

DEATH: 3 Q 1981

District WORCESTER

County Worcestershire

Suspecting that this could have been him, and noting that all names on the memorial board include a middle initial except for Ernest, I then concentrated on searching for an Ernest BIRD.

There is a lot of confusion in the #6, #7 and #8 posts and more research is obviously needed.....

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Continued,

The biggest problem is that Soldiers Died in the Great War (SDGW) states that Ernest BIRD (28901) was born in NOTTINGHAM, whereas the 1911 census states that the Ernest BIRD, scholar in the Choir School, was born in WENVOE, GLAMORGAN, WALES.

One person, or two?

I haven't any more time today to look at this, but searching out the births of an Ernest BIRD in Glamorgan and an Ernest BIRD in Nottingham might prove if these are two different people, or not.

And searching out the death of the Ernest BIRD born in Wales.

Also, where was the Ernest BIRD, born in Nottingham, in the 1911 census?

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This is Ernest Bird from Wenvoe, Cardiff. S.D.G.W. shows him as born Wenvoe, Glam., enlisted Cardiff, residence Wenvoe, Glam.

1911 census - boarder at Choir School, Newland, Malvern, age 12, born Glamorgan, Wenvoe.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/768810/BIRD,%20ERNEST

Also Ernest Bird 28901 17th Bn. Sherwood Foresters

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/180338/BIRD,%20E

S.D.G.W. born and enlisted Nottingham

There is also Ernest Bird 16777 9th York and Lancaster Regt.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/768809/BIRD,%20ERNEST

S.D.G.W. born Retford, Notts, enlisted Otley, Yorks., residence Retford, Notts.

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CGM and Harry,

Thanks for your assistance, I didn't know about the excellent Malvern Remembers site and their schools memorial project. I feel as though we have been on a treasure hunt and someone has been there before us!

I had introduced the Arthur into Ernest Bird and as you correctly say the initial is only for Ernest on the memorial. I had taken this from the 1911 census and with the information above suggest this was the wrong Ernest Bird which is detailed on post#1.

Although the Malvern Remembers site is clear about E Bird and the Nottingham connection you both have introduced a doubt into my mind with the Welsh connection. I think the Newland Choir School connection makes it the E Bird from Glamorgan and the Malvern Remembers site is incorrect giving the CWGC details of the Sherwood Foresters death. I am going with the Private 23027 Welsh Regiment 19th Battalion died 07/07/1916 remembered on the Thiepval Memorial.

The headmaster of the successor to the Malvern Link Council School now called the Somers Park School has written to me expressing his thanks for our efforts in investigating the names on the school memorial and explaining:

"We are planning specific study on the First World War at the end of the summer with a focus on these soldiers. We will be publishing locally to see if there are descendants still in this area.

This information will make a great impact both on learning and understanding for our pupils. If we can get as far as battles fought, died in, it would be even more special."

I think you can see what my next posts may be about.

Steve Knox

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Hello Steve,

I have thought of one more piece of information needed, I think, to complete confirmation of which Ernest BIRD is remembered on the Malvern Link County School Memorial Board and that is why the Newland Choir School scholar should be remembered by this School.

The only information about the education of the choristers which I have found states that In the early days Foundation Boy Choristers were educated on the premises by the Schoolmaster/Organist. Later the boys were educated at the Grammar School in Worcester.

(This is a Wiki entry...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Charles_Allsopp/Beauchamp_Community )

Do you think any local knowledge exists, to explain the link?

CGM

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Hi CGM,

I have written to my friend who is a governor and the headmaster at the Somers Park School the former Malvern Link Council School asking that very question. I incorporated a letter to a local newspaper in 2010 which reveals a little more and I copy this below.

Sir – I am researching and writing a history of Newland Choir School, Malvern, which was part of the Beauchamp Almshouses (now the Beauchamp Community) and which sang in St Leonard’s Church, Newland, from 1864 to 1945. I am hoping to track down any former choristers, family members of choristers or anyone who may have reminiscences or photographs of the choir school. The small but hugely important choir school needs to be thoroughly researched and I am hoping your readers may be able to help.

I shall let you know if they can explain anything.

Thanks for your interest and help.

Steve

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John,

I have been into the Malvern Remembers site and it is excellent. Before CGM pointed out the site I had done my own research and Ernest Bird was a problem. See posts from CGM and HarryBrook above which I feel are suggesting that the Malvern Remembers information on Ernest Bird is incorrect. I think they are right in this, but it doesn't explain why he is on the 1911 census at the Newlands Choir School as a boarder but on the Malvern Link Council School memorial.

I always appreciate any assistance from the forum so you pointing out this site is not putting me in the grandmother situation!

Steve

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Simon,

Thanks very much for this link, I have tracked over the years, usually with forum assistance numerous relatives of my wife, friends and myself and taken an interest in other postings. This is the first time I have seen mention of this site and have checked that there are already all sorts of will information available (for £6) for past posts.

How intriguing, were these in effect battlefield last wills and testaments done whilst in the theatre or before leaving home but with government assistance rather than as I have just done an expensive trip to a private solicitor?

Steve Knox

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http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/great-war-people/research-family-story/3306-wills-of-english-soldiers-killed-in-the-great-war.html

hi steve glad you found the website useful - the above article from the western front association is quite good on the origin of the wills. I found them quite useful for alternative units and addresses. I was quite moved to see my great grandfathers will and signature made only a few days before his death of the somme in august 1916. Your thread caught my eye a being a Bewdley boy i have an interest in worcestershire units and places. Let me know if you think I can help further.

Best

Simon

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Simon,

Thanks for the link to the WFA dealing with the "will project". It answers all the questions in my post regarding the likely time when these wills were made. Also the informality of the wills including no witness being required I found surprising but a feature no doubt of the need to encourage the serving to complete a will.

Kind Regards,

Steve

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CGM HarryBrook and Simon_Fielding,

I have purchased the will of Ernest Bird and feel it correct not to publish the details. However I can confirm that Ernest Bird scholar of Newlands Choir School (Malvern) on the 1911 Census and born Wenvoe Glamorgan died 7/7/16 with the Welsh Regiment and mentions his mother of Wenvoe in his will. Why he is on the Malvern Link Council School (Somers Park) memorial I am still not sure, perhaps the Choir school where he was a boarder gave him religious education/singing content to his life and his state education was at Malvern Link Council School which is in the locality. Surely we can rule out the Malvern Remembers site decision that Nottingham born and Nottingham & Derby Regiment fatality Ernest Bird. was our man; where is the connection with Malvern?

Although I cannot prove this is the right Ernest Bird on the school memorial the odds say to me it is the one born in Glamorgan.

Thanks for everyone's interest and assistance.

Steve Knox

PS I am still exploring Charles Harley Panter on another post on the forum. Some doubts there as well!

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The Nottingham-born casualty was chosen simply because he was " a soldier who was killed close to this newspaper report." More information, which does not support this decision, has now been uncovered.

CGM

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Mags,

No photos, only the information from the CWGC site. Are you able to help in some way. From the post you can see this is a school memorial so photographs would be the final research item for the children to find and dwell on.

Steve

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Can easily do Longuenesss, Pont du hem and Mericourt l'abbé for you, in the next few weeks, if you want, send me your e mail by PM, so that I can send them to you directly

mags

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