cooky Posted 3 April , 2014 Share Posted 3 April , 2014 Morning all, Was wondering how many mine craters are still in existance,how many have been filled in over time and why are the High Wood craters full of water ? Cooky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 3 April , 2014 Share Posted 3 April , 2014 Any hole in the ground will fill up with water if there is no effective drainage if only because of rain fall. If the bottom of the crater is clay soil it will tend to hold water - if chalk it will quite probably drain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 3 April , 2014 Share Posted 3 April , 2014 Lochnagar is one of the bigger left. There was a bigger one near by buy in the 1970's with falling off war "tourisim" the farmer decided the British did't care anymore. He obtained the cash and filled it in, there are now houses built ontop of this crater and starting to shift. I wonder why! Clay soil will hold water tight, sandy soil will drain. It also depends where the water table is at. If the hole has pentrated the water table the hole will fill at that level. Above the water table and may fill in the local instance if the water can not escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgranger Posted 3 April , 2014 Share Posted 3 April , 2014 Y Sap crater at Ovillers-La Boiselle was filled in in the 70s, and Lochnagar survives. You might look at the La Boiselle Project on line, an ongoing 'expedition' in the Glory Hole area of mine craters that pre-date the 1916 Somme Offensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooky Posted 3 April , 2014 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2014 Sorry If this is a dumb question,but if the hole has penetrated into the water table why doesnt the crater overflow or is that the actual water tables level ? Cooky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 3 April , 2014 Share Posted 3 April , 2014 Sorry If this is a dumb question,but if the hole has penetrated into the water table why doesnt the crater overflow This could only happen if water flowed uphill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgranger Posted 3 April , 2014 Share Posted 3 April , 2014 Sorry If this is a dumb question,but if the hole has penetrated into the water table why doesnt the crater overflow or is that the actual water tables level ? Cooky The water tabel is the highest level sub-surface water will reach in normal conditions for the area. As we've seen in the UK recently, when ground is saturated by unusually high levels of rainfall, the water table itself becomes saturated, and will in effect overflow/rise so it might be possible for a mine or shell crater to fill with water and overflow, but not in isolation: the surrounding landscape would itself flood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 3 April , 2014 Share Posted 3 April , 2014 Cooky There is some discussion of the craters on the Somme here; ignore my slightly obsessive speculations and read post 28 by Peter Doyle. As to your original question about how many mines there were I had a search and the number 17 seems to be favourite. I've also seen 10 as the number of mines exploded on 1st July 1916. I know there has been some discussion of mines being filled in and some in the French sector here. The ones I know that are still there are Lochnagar, Hawthorn Ridge (which was actually blown twice), The Triple Tambour at Fricourt, the Glory Hole craters at La Boisselle and the Bois Francais area near Mametz.. Of the ones that have now been filled in the Y Sap crater on the other side of La Boisselle from Lochnagar used to be visible as a chalk mark but has now been built on. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 3 April , 2014 Share Posted 3 April , 2014 The water tabel is the highest level sub-surface water will reach in normal conditions for the area. As we've seen in the UK recently, when ground is saturated by unusually high levels of rainfall, the water table itself becomes saturated, and will in effect overflow/rise so it might be possible for a mine or shell crater to fill with water and overflow, but not in isolation: the surrounding landscape would itself flood Not quite under all conditions it is the upper level of an underground surface in which the soil or rocks are permanently saturated with water. This will rise and fall due to things such as rain fall, water extraction/drainage but in a particular area it will be generally uniform. When things are very wet it will some times be higher than the lower levels of solid surface (ie the ground is flooded) in very long arid arid conditions it may fall considerably. If you create a large hole that is deeper than the water table that hole can only flood with water from the aquifer below the water table until if is filled up to the level of the water table (otherwise water is running up hill!. The hole would overflow if there was an additional source of water going into it (say rainfall) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyne Posted 3 April , 2014 Share Posted 3 April , 2014 Lochnagar is one of the bigger left. There was a bigger one near by buy in the 1970's with falling off war "tourisim" the farmer decided the British did't care anymore. He obtained the cash and filled it in, there are now houses built ontop of this crater and starting to shift. I wonder why! Muhahahaha .... laughter in a very dark tone... kidding... Don't forget all the craters left from Messines... That's the Caterpillar, Hill 60, Hooge, St Eloi, Spanbroekmolen, Pool of Peace, Ontario Farm and the Kruisstraat craters, to name a few... MM. And this is where little Marilyne notices that the topic title says "soMMe craters, and not some and that she's about to make a fool of herself... About time the studies stop ... sorry .... M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Posted 4 April , 2014 Share Posted 4 April , 2014 Hi, On this aerial from La Boisselle in 1947 the two craters Y sap & Lochnagar are still clearly visible. Y Sap doesn't seem bigger than the Lochnagar ? Sly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKY Posted 4 April , 2014 Share Posted 4 April , 2014 Great photo Sly , where is it from and are there others for the Somme? Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Posted 4 April , 2014 Share Posted 4 April , 2014 Yes, there are plenty of them, it's from the IGN website: I warn you, you're going to spend hours there ! Here: http://www.geoportail.gouv.fr/actualite/181/telechargez-les-cartes-et-photographies-aeriennes-historiques Click on "deplier la carte", then enter the location. "Remonter le temps" (top right), choose "les prises de vue aériennes" then the time wanted from 1919, 1939, 1947, etc... Enjoy ! Sly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Posted 4 April , 2014 Share Posted 4 April , 2014 Another one, Vimy ridge in 1947: Sly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFox100 Posted 7 April , 2014 Share Posted 7 April , 2014 Just returned from battlefields tour of the Somme, recent picture of Lochnagar. Some crater. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bonzer Brad Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 Hi, I'm new to all of this, having joined only yesterday, so please bear with me. I'm not sure whether or not this needs to be a new thread. But anyway, this is my query. In 1979 I visited the Somme with the school. I recall visiting a huge crater and being able to run all the way down and up the other side. The crater looked like Lochnager but with a collection of trees in it. I revisited Lochnager last year for the first time and asked someone about the trees to be told that there have never been any in the bottom! Now I could be confusing this with Hawthorn though images of that show it to be completely over run with trees. Any ideas? It was a particularly large and important crater, so realistically could only have been one of these two. I wouldn't have thought that the Hawthorn would have been so overrun with trees over the past 35 years. Could be wrong though. I think Y Sap would have been filled in by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 There are hundreds of mine craters still in existence; not just the few that are in the British sector. Around the St Mihiel salient and the Argonne I could take you to at least 20 that you have never heard of. Come to think of it, many more than 20; Les Eparges has about 10 all by itself. Then there's Vauquois with heaven knows how many - ignore the six it says on the noticeboard, that's just the big ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bonzer Brad Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 Thanks Healdav. I'm referring just to the Somme. The crater I visited would have been pretty well known to have been on the school itinerary, hence the reason why I'm guessing either Lochnager or Hawthorn. I'm probably going with Hawthorn. I guess that trees can grow particularly quickly over 35 years. All I recall at the time was a collection of them at the foot of the crater. I haven't been back to Hawthorn since, though it is on my list. I should have gone there when I was last at Newfoundland Park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgranger Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 Don't know about trees but in the early '80s, I think Lochnagar had some significant bushes growing in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 Brad Welcome to the forum; I think you are right about the crater you went into being Hawthorn Ridge. I was up there last September and you can still climb down, we decided against it not being schoolboys (at least physically) anymore. There is an excellent view down from the edge of the crater in post 3 in this thread which may jog your memory. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootrock Posted 5 March , 2018 Share Posted 5 March , 2018 Sly, I have just noticed this thread, and have looked at the IGN website as suggested. However since you gave details it seems to have been redesigned, and historic photos are only available from 1950 to 1965. Is this correct, or am I missing something? Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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