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Remembered Today:

Anyone know London?


Gordon Caldecott
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Gary

Nice one - fingers crossed that you get a result.

I'm just up the Chingford line at Walthamstow nowadays but spent a couple of years round the Bancroft Road area. Ventured around Roman Road on occasion.

Didn't know about the western end once being Green Street which is what aroused my interest.

Kind regards

Mike S

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Small world Mike, my Nan had a flat in Bancroft Road. Also, there used to be a butchers in Walthamstow called "Applegates" and I noticed there was one down the Roman Road too.

Hopefully we can get something with all this working together going on ;)

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Yes I noticed Applegates in the directory and wondered if it was the same family.

Used to be my butchers until it closed a couple of years back. A couple of the butchers who used to work there seem to work at the place round the corner in Hoe Street nowadays - East London Sausage Company or whatever its called.

Cheers

Mike

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Guest deepathart

Hi Guys,

My GGrandad his brothers and his sons had stalls in Smithfields Stall No 285 and 321 WH Darrington & sons -and - Thomas Darrington - they were butchers and sausage casing manufacturers - so the Post office records show.

Fred advise me that they were "Gut Cleaners" but I prefer sausage casings.

Is this anywhere near where you are talking about?

Regards

Dee

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Dee

Not a million miles away - Roman Road is about 2 miles from Smithfield but then if you think about it that includes quite a lot of capital in between.

I know the latter area well however - I worked around Smithfield for about 15 years or so and still meet up with work colleagues once a week or so in a pub about 400 yds from the market.

I take it you don't know Smithfield - if you would like I could post a map and photos of the area.

Mike

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Guest deepathart

Mike,

Yes please - I live in Australia - was a Qantas Hostie for 4 years went to England a lot but until I was asked to trace the family really didn't know much about the palce except for the Touristy places, now I wish I had spent more time looking further afield. :(

Dee

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Dee

Ok - Here goes. A little about the history first of all.

Smithfield is the name of both the market and the area. It was and is the largest meat market in London. Prior to the present market being built in the mid 19th Century it was an open air livestock market with horses, sheep, cattle, pigs and poultry being sold. The surrounding area was filled with abattoirs.

Originally a meadow known as Smoothfield outside the city walls it was well known in medieval times for its market trading in livestock. It was also used as a place of entertainment with jousting, tournaments and sporting events and the annual St Bartholomew's Fair. The fair took its name from St Bartholomew's hospital which together with the market is one of the twin institutions of Smithfield.

Smithfield was also the site of the culmination of the Peasant's Revolt in 1381. Wat Tyler, the rebels leader, was stabbed to death there by the Lord Mayor of London.

It was also a place of public execution for about 400 years and during the reformation was the place where 'heretics' were burned at the stake.

From the 17th Century the City grew up around it and enclosed the area of Smithfield. By the mid 19th Century it had become impractical to continue driving livestock through the streets for slaughter at the market and so an indoor market was built. The open air livestock market was moved out to Caledonian Road and the new market, with railway access underneath, opened in the 1850's.

It is this market that your ancestors would have had stalls in.

During the second World War one corner of the market was hit by a V2 resulting in great loss of life with over 100 people killed and 200 injured. Barts hospital was inundated with casualties.

I have some old photos of the market which I will post once I have scanned them.

Mike

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Dee

Ok - the first picture is an etching of the open air market in the 18th Century with St bartholomew's hospital in the background. The covered market was built on the open space centure picture in the mid 19th Century.

post-8-1100682023.jpg

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and here's the covered market around 1900.

Its the long building on the right

post-8-1100682145.jpg

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another exterior shot circa 1900

post-8-1100682236.jpg

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interior with market stall such as your Grandad and his brothers would have worked on.

post-8-1100682337.jpg

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Finally another typical stall in the market

post-8-1100682396.jpg

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One last thing - I have about a dozen more of these images. If you would like me to send them to you e-mail me and I will happily do so.

If you are interested in the history of Smithfield and the market it might be worth getting hold of "Smithfield Past and Present" by Alec Forshaw and Theo Bergstrom. It was originally written in 1980s and revised about a decade later.

however such is the change round the area the revised edition is more than a little dated.

I have a reproduction ordnance survey map of the area which I will post when I get time.

Regards

Mike

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Guest deepathart

Mike,

These are amazing, in particular the stall number 353, just a few up from one of Grandads brothers 321.

I have sent you an email, and will try and get hold of the book. You have no idea how much this means to me, and what it will mean to my Mum.

Thank you so much,

Regards

Dee

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Dee

The book is probably out of print but you should be able to get a copy for a few quid from Abebooks

Regards

Mike

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I have a pre-WWII edition of Phillips' ABC Pocket Atlas Guide to London. The page which might show the year of publication is missing, but at least it shows the street layouts pre-blitz and later re-development.

There were a number of streets called Roman Road in London, but none of the other streets seem long enough to me to have a number 290.

Also, there is no Holdford Road in the index.

My husband, who comes from East London and knows a little about some of the older accents and dialects which have somewhat died out, says that it is quite feasible for someone from the area to add an "H" to Old Ford and pronounce it "Hold Ford". You only then need the person writing it down not to know that part of London and, hey presto, you have Holdford Road. Cockneys are noted for dropping the letter "H", but it was just as common then in some parts of London to add one where it shoudn't be.

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Guest deepathart

Mike,

Thanks for that, have placed order - I checked it out with Amazon and the price was $132.00 US = approx $180 AD and that was a used copy, your people GBP 11.75 =$27.15AD new that includes postage approx 3 weeks-1 month. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Kindest regards

Dee

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Dee

Blimey you don't hang about! :D

Regards

Mike S

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Wow Guys, thanks ever so much to everyone whose put a reply on this topic, I`m very greatful indeed.

Once I`ve finished researching this Soldier/Bobby, I`ll put all my findings on the site.

Kind regards,

Gordon.

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