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Remembered Today:

Sgt King, RFA - non commem long shot. Very long shot


John_Hartley

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During some In From the Cold project research, Terry (TcM59) has identified a man listed in the Board of Trade register of passenger fatalities from the loss of the SS Connemara on 3 November 1916, who does not appear to be commemorated by CWGC.

He is only recorded as Sergeant King, "D" Battery, RFA.

I realise that this is going to be a long shot in trying to identify him but post the details here just in case.

In the first instance, I'd be making the assumption that King had been serving in Ireland and was returning to Britain on leave - as such, I'm assuming there's no Medal Index Card (although I suppose it is also possible that he was Irish and was returning to duty from leave).

Does anyone have any thoughts about how we might progress this?

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John

Definitely a long shot but ..... there are eleven RFA King lost at sea casualties for 1916:

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KING, Thomas

Unit:Royal Field Artillery

Rank:Driver

Number:855383

Year: 1916

Volume : A.8

Page: 61

Record source: GRO War Death Army Other Ranks

KING, Walter H

Unit:Royal Field Artillery

Rank:Bombadier

Number:57421

Year: 1916

Volume : A.1

Page: 410

Record source: GRO War Death Army Other Ranks

KING, Walter J

Unit:Royal Field Artillery

Rank:Acting Bombadier

Number:98138

Year: 1916

Volume : A.1

Page: 374

Record source: GRO War Death Army Other Ranks

KING, William E

Unit:Royal Field Artillery

Rank:Gunner

Number:L/38187

Year: 1916

Volume : A.1

Page: 239

Record source: GRO War Death Army Other Ranks

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But it is this one that looks very much like your man:

KING, Charles

Unit:Royal Field Artillery

Rank:Sergeant

Number:11963

Year: 1916

Volume : A.1

Page: 230

Record source: GRO War Death Army Other Ranks

I have checked the CWGC for 1916 but can't seem to find an entry for him.

Mel

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Mel

Thanks for this. However, Soldiers Died has Charles King deceased on 13 July (commemorated on the Basra Memorial as Q C King). However, it raises the question as to whether the GRO Overseas War Deaths would list a man who died in home waters or whether we should be looking for a British or Irish death certificate - although in itself that might be a needle/haystack exercise without a bit more to go on. FreeBMD lists over 20 deaths of men named King and of army age in the December quarter for England/Wales. .

John

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Hmmm .... the 'at sea' alleged filter obviously didn't work for that one unless it has used the epic of Gilgamesh as a reference point.

i didn't pick up on the use of Q C rather than Charles of just C.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It is possible that he may be buried in the mass grave in Kilkeel, as that is where many of the unidentified bodies were buried according to searching the net.

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Sorry to butt in - but would the death be registered in Ireland rather than England / Wales?

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Apologies - poor reading on my part.



This smacks of hearsay but might be a lead?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/yourplaceandmine/down/A724385.shtml




Drowned with handcuffs on


Whilst many of those travelling that night were visiting relations or starting new lives, a group of soldiers were heading for the Western Front. Private RA Kenna had already been wounded twice, whilst Private Philip Goodfellow had been attending the funeral of his sister. One recruit, however, from outside Newry, may have been under arrest for desertion and, according to the local press, his body was found after the collision handcuffed to that of a sergeant. This, however, is disputed by some of his relatives who claim he was not handcuffed when his body was discovered.


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I see that Pte Kenna was from the Irish Guards and is buried at Cavan. It is a possibility that the sergeant mentioned could be Sgt King, but where did they bury the unknown sgt?

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Is it possible to establish the nationality of the other identified military casualties and and check whether they have an english or irish death certificate? Might enable us to establish a precedent and narrow down the search...

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Simon

I've done a bit of sampling. The majority seem to have a military overseas death certificate but I can't find a candidate for us in that register. A couple do not seem to have overseas death certificates. I've checked these and can't see an English regisitration of death

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I tried checking the HM Govt Soldier's Wills site for King - Harold is Lincs / Thiepval - can't see CWGC for John Willie on the 5th Nov....lots of JW Kings on Ancestry seem to be RFA...not coming up on SDGW either. Could 5th Nov be the finding of a body?

KING HAROLD 7/12986 03 November 1916 Add to basket KING WILLIAM A/200192 04 November 1916 Add to basket KING JOHN WILLIE 6020 05 November 1916 Add to basket KING WILLIAM HENRY 6793 06 November 1916 Add to basket KING ROWLAND 40501 10 November 1916 Add to basket
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I can't find John Willie in either the Overseas Deaths Register or Ancestry's listing of England/Wales deaths. Nor can I find him on CWGC. He may or may not be my man but it certainly looks as though he's possibly an uncommemorated serving soldier.

Perhaps unconnected but Ancestry has a listing of an Irish death in 1916 of a William John King. My Ancestry subscription doesnt cover Irish records.

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Perhaps unconnected but Ancestry has a listing of an Irish death in 1916 of a William John King. My Ancestry subscription doesnt cover Irish records.

If it's the man registered in Armagh he was 53.

Craig

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In the first instance, I'd be making the assumption that King had been serving in Ireland and was returning to Britain on leave - as such, I'm assuming there's no Medal Index Card (although I suppose it is also possible that he was Irish and was returning to duty from leave).

Possibly he was on leave ( The Times (London, England), Monday, Nov 06, 1916; pg. 6; Issue 41317) and possibly had his family with him.

post-51028-0-58165800-1397406880_thumb.p

It also adds

post-51028-0-17938100-1397407143_thumb.p

Craig

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The chap that was registered in Armagh seems to have died 29th March 1916, source: https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/

William King 29th March 1916 53 Male

Armagh(pre-1973 Q4)

I have checked Northern Ireland death register and the closest was a Charles King 29/10/1916 Aged 74 Registered Newry.

Had a go on Irish Roots website search index last night but not successful, i wasn't very good searching Roots to tell the truth.

Is Southern Ireland death registers online?

Walter

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Thanks for the look-up, Craig - but that'll be Gunner Frank Diver who was travelling with his wife and 2 kids.

I'll order up the will for John Willie King and see if it gives us clues to identify him with. Maybe he was Scottish and death was registered there?

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1 1911 KING JOHN W M 48 MONKTON AND PRESTWICK /AYR 606/00 004/00 002

2 1911 KING JOHN W M 13 STEWARTON /AYR 616/00 013/00 005

3 1911 KING JOHN W R M 38 ROW OR RHU /DUNBARTON 503/00 007/00 009

4 1911 KING JOHN WELSH M 4 FINTRY (STIRLING) /STIRLING 480/00 001/00 004

5 1911 KING JOHN WILLIAM M 11 MORNINGSIDE EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/06 099/00 003

6 1911 KING JOHN WILSON M 7 SANDAY /ORKNEY 026/00 006/00 008

7 1911 KING JOHN WOOD M 11 BANFF /BANFF 147/0A 007/00 004


1911 census

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I think know there was an inquest into the sinking in 1917, but would they have been a coroner's inquest on specific victims or would they have been dealt with collectively?

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Got the will for John Willie King, to find the Probate Office has wrongly indexed him. Real name is Key.

Back to the drawing board

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/yourplaceandmine/down/A724385.shtml

This article makes reference to a: "list of passengers, painstakingly drawn up by CJ McCarthy of Dundalk and J Lane of London" -

What list is this?

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