Sue Light Posted 5 April , 2014 Share Posted 5 April , 2014 If this had been a 'drama' about men - about a battalion of the British Army - would it have been alright to dress them in brown, or green rather than khaki? Would it be alright to have them in berets or wearing plimsolls? Or drinking in an estaminet wearing civilian clothes? Would people have put that down to 'inaccuracies'? It's only possible to play the 'drama' card when the subject matter doesn't really matter to you. There will undoubtedly be many inaccuracies in The Crimson Field which are acceptable, but such major problems are rather more than that. This may be drama, but it's not pure fiction. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 5 April , 2014 Share Posted 5 April , 2014 Quite right Sue. In the TV listings magazine that comes with the Saturday Daily Mail (the Memsahib buys it) there is a picture of some of the cast accompanying a "preview". The RAMC Corporal who "runs the hospital" is wearing a long white coat and has his feet up showing that he is wearing a pair of black boots with rubber "commando" type moulded soles and they have a ski boot hook fastening for the laces. Accuracy indeed! edited-poor choice of wording.....and another thing! He's wearing black socks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfishmo Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 Base hospital: Sue noted this is supposed to take place at a BASE hospital. I didn't see any references to that, but I don't have as much access to their promo info as you Brits do. If indeed it is supposed to be a base hospital, their verbiage leads one to believe a base hospital was close to the trenches: "As the three volunteer nurses settle into their first day, it soon becomes clear that no training could ever have prepared them for the reality of working near the front line."(citation) And Suranne Jones commented here: “This is my first period drama and I am so excited at the prospect of filming a First World War series set on a frontline hospital." Base hospitals were generally 60 miles or more from the Western Front. Looking at this map of the Western Front here, it appears Boulogne was the closest to the trenches. The other Base hospitals (Le Havre, Rouen, Le Touquet and Etaples) are further west from the Front. Although a lot closer than a drawing room in England, most would not consider 60 miles to be 'front line." However, I believe stationery hospitals could often be just a few miles down the road from a Casualty Clearing Station. Treating troops from all over the world: I may be wrong about this, but it has caught my attention twice now. This promo states: "The patients are a rich mix of British soldiers, troops from all over the world and even enemies from the other side of no man’s land." While there were undoubtably German POW's in British hospitals, in what I am reading, these hospitals may have seen a few stray non-British soldiers, or clumps of nationals from somewhere other than Britain, but for the most part, British soldiers ended up at British hospitals, French ended up in French hospitals, etc. Those of you with knowledge of these vagaries, please join our conversation, and if possible, cite primary sources and do not assume readers of this thread are well-versed in what may seem common or obvious WW1 information to you. Believe me, I have read 12+ WW1 books, and spent at least 3 hours a day for the last several months reading diaries online and studying WW1, and answers to some of the most basic questions still elude me. I told my husband the other day that often I feel like a person trying to find out the characteristics of a pine tree and primary sources only give accounts of the forest. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth505 Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 I suspect I'm not alone in thinking that television history or television drama is a guilty pleasure that is displacing time that could be spent reading. But it's fun! Plus an extra glass of wine doesn't distract so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 Having followed her posts and blog for some time I absolutely bow to Sue when it comes to facts about the medical services but I think the term field hospital (lower case) in the blurb is used to denote a hospital that is in the field (in other words in tents) rather than in a building. None of the promotional material I have seen refers to it as a Field Hospital. Of course this difference doesn't make the drama any more accurate and doesn't soften the blow of the numerous other errors that Sue and Ginger have written about. I won't be watching it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 Here they describe it as 'field hospital 25a, near Etaples' (paragraph 3). As British hospitals were universally called 'No.x General Hospital' or 'No.y Stationary Hospital,' it does rather suggest even though fictional, it might have been rather better to leave out the 'field' (capitals or no capitals). The Crimson Field Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3rn Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 One thing I am anxious to see developed is the non-medical gal who I suspect is the 'rich lady from England who put up the money for the facility.' I have seen evidence for these non RAMC/Red Cross hospitals condoned by Belgian and Serbian gov't but not British. If anyone has primary source documentation of a private sponsored British CCS, I would be very interested in the details. A private sponsored British CCS, I don't know of - but hospitals, at least a few on the French coast - like Lady Dudley's Australian Voluntary Hospital http://huntervalleygreatwarnurses.com/about/short-stories/australian-first-for-newcastle-matron/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 My magazine of TV listings describes it as a French field hospital. Will there be sub-titles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 Here they describe it as 'field hospital 25a, near Etaples' (paragraph 3). As British hospitals were universally called 'No.x General Hospital' or 'No.y Stationary Hospital,' it does rather suggest even though fictional, it might have been rather better to leave out the 'field' (capitals or no capitals). The Crimson Field Sue Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarylW Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 What I can't understand is how on earth did they make such a monumental error and not use the correct colour of SCARLET for uniforms? And why didn't they listen to expert advice? Film-makers seem to be aware these days of the effect when using the colour (bright scarlet) red for garments and how the eye is drawn to that colour, making the character wearing the colour stand out. To use the correct colour would have had more visual impact, so as well as being grossly and infuriatingly historically inaccurate, they missed a trick there. Once I learned (via Sue) that the uniforms were going to be the wrong colour, that was it for me. If they can get something so fundamental wrong, then what hope is there for the rest of the production. It's not a slight sort of error that can be glossed over and put down to artistic licence, or 'drama' - it's a whopper!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard_Lewis Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 I suspect the Mods will have to upgrade the website bandwidth once the show airs! Do watch your blood pressure, Sue. ;0) Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteStarLine Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 VADs at CCS: There were no VADs at CCS. I don't have any primary source to quote on this, but will defer to expert Sue Light who stated here: "Never, ever, did VADs work in CCSs." ----------------------------------------------------------- According to the Long Long Trail at http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/albertmedal.html: 1 October 1918: A fire at No. 36 Casualty Clearing Station based at Roesbrugge near Poperinge quickly reached the operating theatre where an abdominal operation was in progress. Miss Alice Batt, a VAD of No 9 British Red Cross Society unit attached to the CCS, continued to assist with the operation. Sister Miss Gertrude Carlin, Staff Nurse Miss Harriett Fraser, Territorial Force Nursing Service, and Sister Miss Gladys White, British Red Cross Society, were also awarded the Albert Medal in Bronze for their parts in this incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anneca Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 I suspect I'm not alone in thinking that television history or television drama is a guilty pleasure that is displacing time that could be spent reading. But it's fun! Plus an extra glass of wine doesn't distract so much. According to some members, especially on the other related thread, they will require more than a bottle! Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 It was an extraordinary set of circumstances that found her there. At the time some of the British Casualty Clearing Stations were overwhelmed and unable to cope with the number of casualties arriving. Nos.11, 36 and 44 CCS were all alongside each other, and a request had been made for extra staff which could not be supplied at the time by the British. The need was for surgical 'teams' - these were mobile groups which filled urgent gaps and were made up of one surgeon, one anaesthetist, one trained theatre sister and one or two theatre orderlies. Teams were supplied to these CCSs by Canadian and American units, and as these were still not enough, No.9 British Red Cross Hospital also offered two teams, and that offer was accepted - it's probably the only time during the war that this happened. Alice Batt was part of one of those teams as a theatre orderly which was not unusual at British Red Cross Hospitals. Immediately the crisis was over, the teams were withdrawn. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 Mrs Broomfield has decided to record it and watch while I am elsewhere. Seems a reasonable decision to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 I dunno. If you smashed it over my head, then bound and gagged me before I woke up, I might just sit in the same room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honora Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 With regard to the forthcoming Testament of Youth film, I believe one of the advisers on the film is Mark Bostridge ( co editor of 'Letter from a Lost Generation, First World War Letters of Vera Brittain and Four Friends'). I willl be watching Crimson Field as light entertainment. Honora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghazala Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 I will be drawn to it like a moth to a flame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 I will be drawn to it like a moth to a flame! Masochist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Phillips Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 I'm with Mrs Broomfield; I shall record it but then probably 'forget' to watch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RammyLad1 Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 Suranne Jones is cast in a lead role - what's not to like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfishmo Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 A private sponsored British CCS, I don't know of - but hospitals, at least a few on the French coast - like Lady Dudley's Australian Voluntary Hospital http://huntervalleygreatwarnurses.com/about/short-stories/australian-first-for-newcastle-matron/ This appears to be an Australian sponsored hospital. Unfortunately, it does not state if it served British or Australian soldiers. I would assume Australian. However, this one is in contrast to the ones I mention on the thread below, as it was started and staffed all by qualified nurses. I have come across a few other British sponsored medical facilities, but they joined up with non-British governments. Thus far the evidence (though scant) suggests that the RAMC opposed such entities. I will start a new thread to discuss this. [i began a thread here and found an answer.] My magazine of TV listings describes it as a French field hospital. Will there be sub-titles? This caught my attention as well--then I realized they just meant it was located in France, not necessarily that it served French soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 The Crimson Field on Facebook You could suggest an edit or two? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfishmo Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 ... Alice Batt was part of one of those teams as a theatre orderly which was not unusual at British Red Cross Hospitals. Immediately the crisis was over, the teams were withdrawn. Sue To cite a primary source on this, in the book Dorthea's War (Diary of VAD), she mentions that her best friend Christie (also a VAD) spent quite a bit of time in theater. This is from my notes: pg 211- During a time huge influx of wounded: “C (her VAD friend) is very busy now in theater. She takes ops with Colonel Fullerton and the other various other swells who operate.” [VADs were obviously not forbidden in op room. Does not note what her duties included.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfishmo Posted 6 April , 2014 Share Posted 6 April , 2014 One more quibble: Volunteer nurses: The phrase "volunteers" is repeatedly used as they did here: "As the three volunteer nurses settle into their first day..." Also, a recent Red Cross blog about the show suggests that all VADs serving were volunteers. After all, VAD stands for VOLUNTARY Aid Detachment. Although I believe all VADs working in Britain were volunteers (they could sleep in their own beds at night) those working in hospitals overseas were generally paid. Dorthea's War (Diary of VAD) offers a primary source. From my notes-- "pg 24- Pay of 28.85 francs. Salary for the month comes to 10 pounds—only expected to make 20 pounds in YEAR." I'm sure Sue could chime in if ALL VADs in Britain were volunteers and which VADs (if any) overseas were truly volunteers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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