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Remembered Today:

1st London Regiment or Royal Fusiliers?


Nick Cooper
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Been doing a bit of (Tequila and cigar-fuelled! :blink: ) number-crunching to try to reconcile an anomally that has come up in my research.

I have a casualty (Harold Palmer MOSS) down in 'SDitGW' as Died of Wounds 06/08/17, London Regiment, "1st (City of London) Battalion (Royal Fusiliers)." Supplementary notes state, "POSTED 11th BATTN.R.FUS." CWGC has "1st Bn. London Regt (Royal Fusilers)," and Secondary Unit/Regiment as "posted 11th Bn., Royal Fusiliers."

Checking furthur on 'SDitGW' shows the same Bn. (i.e. "1st (City of London) Battalion (Royal Fusiliers)") as having 11 KIA on 31/07/17, 7 more over the following eights days, and 7 DoW over the same period (25 in all). CWGC has 12 of the KIA on the Menin Gate, the rest buried around Zillebeke. The DoWs are - as one would expect - in cemeteries associated with the lines of evacuation between Ypres and Calais. In addition, 16 of the others (out of the 25 total for 31/07-08/08/17) show them as attached or posted to various Royal Fusiliers Battalions, while one is on the CWGC as the 1st RFs, with no mention of the London Regiment at all.

Now, checking the War Diaries of both the 1/1st & 2/1st London Regiment yesterday shows both in training, no casualties, and certainly nothing that explains the 11 KIA in 'SDitGW' on 31/07/17. Focussing on the man I'm interested in, the 11th Royal Fusiliers shows a lot of gas casualties on 31/07 and 01/08/17, but no fatalities (confirmed by 'SDitGW'), and them being in camp at Dikkebus on the days either side, so that seems a bit of a non-starter. On the other hand, the 1st Royal Fusiliers' Diary shows they were involved in heavy fighting in the Shrewsbury Forest area on 31/07/17, with over 250 killed, wounded or missing.

Any ideas? I suspect I'm missing something really obvious here.... :unsure:

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Hi Nick,

The Regular and New Army battalions of the Royal Fusiliers had the title (City of LondonRegiment) after Royal Fusiliers. The Territorial battalions of the regiment were in the London Regiment and would show this as i.e. 1st (City of London) Bn. The London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers). Your man was possibly in the 1st Londons and sent to the other battalion on a working party or something.

I hope this clears up the battalion titles for you.

John

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I would check his entry in the medal rolls (not just the MIC). SDGW is prone to error, and the titles could well have caused some confusion. Does CWGC give any more?

The first 4 battalions of the London Regt were affiliated to the R Fusiliers and blocks of men were posted from them to the R Fusiliers and vice versa. The rolls may suggest that he was one of a block transferred or attached. I suggest it would have been more long term than a working party (which could be very short term and which would probably not show on the rolls).

I'm researching the 19th London Regt, which was affiliated to the Middlesex and have found men with Middx numbers in the 19th roll and men w 19th numbers in the Middx roll. I have some Middx regt men who were attached 19th Londons (as shown in CWGC and SDGW) but who still remain in the Middx regt rolls.

clear as mud? it is still confusing me :ph34r:

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  • 2 years later...
I would check his entry in the medal rolls (not just the MIC). SDGW is prone to error, and the titles could well have caused some confusion. Does CWGC give any more?

The first 4 battalions of the London Regt were affiliated to the R Fusiliers and blocks of men were posted from them to the R Fusiliers and vice versa. The rolls may suggest that he was one of a block transferred or attached. I suggest it would have been more long term than a working party (which could be very short term and which would probably not show on the rolls).

I'm researching the 19th London Regt, which was affiliated to the Middlesex and have found men with Middx numbers in the 19th roll and men w 19th numbers in the Middx roll. I have some Middx regt men who were attached 19th Londons (as shown in CWGC and SDGW) but who still remain in the Middx regt rolls.

clear as mud? it is still confusing me :ph34r:

Charles could you please direct me as to where I might find where the 1st/17 battallion London Regiment were on or around 1 Oct 1916 The man in questin GS EVans is mentioned at Thiepval Thanks Colin

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Charles could you please direct me as to where I might find where the 1st/17 battallion London Regiment were on or around 1 Oct 1916 The man in questin GS EVans is mentioned at Thiepval Thanks Colin

Thanks Nick I am still learning how to use the system including finding your answer so sorry if it is delayed. I am still trying to look at the medal rolls as the Kew system keeps turning down my C Card on line.Trying to phone them when they open. Thanks Colin

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Interesting reading...My great uncle was in the 2nd London Reg, Royal Fusliers...and died at the battle of Gommecourt aged just 18 on the first day of the Somme. On the page that gives information on 1/2 London Reg..it might be interesting to read that his battalion were in Suffolk before they were drafted to France to The Somme. I know this because he clearly states in his letters home, that they had marched from Bury St Edmunds to Stowmarket as part of a training exercise.I also know sadly, that he had actually lied about his age when enlisting...so unlike most who were 19...he was actually 18 when he was killed. If anyone is interested in the contents of his letters, perhaps if your relatives were in the same unit, please message me.

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Interesting reading...My great uncle was in the 2nd London Reg, Royal Fusliers...and died at the battle of Gommecourt aged just 18 on the first day of the Somme. On the page that gives information on 1/2 London Reg..it might be interesting to read that his battalion were in Suffolk before they were drafted to France to The Somme. I know this because he clearly states in his letters home, that they had marched from Bury St Edmunds to Stowmarket as part of a training exercise.I also know sadly, that he had actually lied about his age when enlisting...so unlike most who were 19...he was actually 18 when he was killed. If anyone is interested in the contents of his letters, perhaps if your relatives were in the same unit, please message me.

Hi I have just been reading the most amazing set of letters I have ever seen. A friend realising my interest showed me her Uncle in laws letters home during the war. He lasted the whole of the war and incredibly was in the London Reg and is buried at Gommecourt. He was killed oct 10th 1918 how sad after horrendous events. I only read a small part but they are so graphic , he was an intelligent man and they told me in detail what the whole thing felt like. I am trying to convince her to publish them. I note that for a time he was at Ipswich before going to France I can see your ref to Suffolk The letters go on fot the whole war day after day and I read only one year and that took some time I had to drag myself away with making arrangements to return and see the rest. I will try to look at the ref to Suffolk agin and send you any info Colin

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Hi I have just been reading the most amazing set of letters I have ever seen. A friend realising my interest showed me her Uncle in laws letters home during the war. He lasted the whole of the war and incredibly was in the London Reg and is buried at Gommecourt. He was killed oct 10th 1918 how sad after horrendous events. I only read a small part but they are so graphic , he was an intelligent man and they told me in detail what the whole thing felt like. I am trying to convince her to publish them. I note that for a time he was at Ipswich before going to France I can see your ref to Suffolk The letters go on fot the whole war day after day and I read only one year and that took some time I had to drag myself away with making arrangements to return and see the rest. I will try to look at the ref to Suffolk agin and send you any info Colin

Just spoken to my friend I have got the burial place wrong but its sounds similar but I wont be able to confirm until she lets me look at the letters again Colin

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How interesting to have such a collection of letters with a day by day account.

With regards Suffolk, in my Gt Uncles letters, he describes marching from Bury to Stowmarket on a training exercise and tells his parents that he is being posted to France very soon. The next letter comes from a BEF YMCA at Rouen.

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