trajan Posted 3 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 3 November , 2014 That's ok Jeff - the lad was having the same hassle too! I'll try to find you a nice obscure MG marking as field punishment... Now, what do we have here? On a French website (where prices are 50% what they are in the UK!), an S.71 with a WILHELM/SUHL maker's mark, and so W/72-76, according to the data. Nice clear marks but way over-polished... Non-matching numbers but the same unit... 111.R.R.1.167 on the bayonet, and 111.R.R.3.117 on the scabbard. So, Reserve-(Infanterie-) Regiment Nr. 111, a Badisches unit, which matches the frog stud, one of those long narrow Baden-W types. On the other hand, look closely at that scabbard marking... Traces of an earlier one there methinks... Edit: their history is at: http://genwiki.genealogy.net/RIR_111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 3 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 3 November , 2014 And one more from France - S.71 again, a Coppel, allegedly W/89, but I don't see any S.71's being made that year, so really W/79? Whatever, '3.R.4.69' on the bayonet gives us the 'Grenadier-Regiment König Friedrich Wilhelm I (2. Ostpreußisches) Nr.3', at http://genwiki.genealogy.net/Gren.R_3; while '88.R.12,78' is the '2. Nassauisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr.88', at http://genwiki.genealogy.net/IR_88. The scabbard is again with what I have always thought to be one of those B-W type frog-studs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2014 Here's a nice one... 16. FK. 44, and I think 16.Fuhrpark-Kolonne Waffe 44... But it's on a P.1903 bayonet! See http://s400910952.we...ayonets doa.htm Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 November , 2014 Share Posted 25 November , 2014 Might I hear the expert opinion on the probable date of these unit markings? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 25 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2014 Well I certainly would not claim to be an expert and in any case I am a long ways from home and my books! But it is certainly NOT a standard Schutzpolizei marking, as a quick look at the web will show. Take this as an example, downloaded for reference purposes only from http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/deutsche-polizei-forum/police-bayonets-anyone-129278-2/ This is: - 'S' = Schutzpolizei; 'Br' = Breslau; 'II' = 2nd precinct; '104' = weapon no. 104. As far as I can remember and from what I have just gone through on the web, all standard schutzpolizei bayonet markings follow that format: Letter S for Schutzpolizei, letter for the city, Roman numerals for the precinct; 'Arabic' numerals for the weapon number. Hope this helps, but have to admit that personally it looks a wee bit of a curate's egg to me... Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie B Posted 25 November , 2014 Share Posted 25 November , 2014 Schutzpolizei Danzig - established 1921 This style of marking is illustrated in History Writ in Steel - German Police Markings 1900-1936 by Don Maus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 25 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2014 Schutzpolizei Danzig - established 1921 This style of marking is illustrated in History Writ in Steel - German Police Markings 1900-1936 by Don Maus. Well done that man! I wondered if it might be Danzig but I had not seen that format before... Thanks to your lead I see that there are several pistols marked this way and also at least one bayonet - a W/18 98/05, marked Schupo.Dz.1052 at http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm64.pl?f=NR_LOT&c=7577&t=temartic_R_D&db=kat64_3R.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 November , 2014 Share Posted 25 November , 2014 Thanks. That confirms what I had thought. I will pass the information on the owner. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 26 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 November , 2014 Schutzpolizei Danzig - established 1921 This style of marking is illustrated in History Writ in Steel - German Police Markings 1900-1936 by Don Maus. Richie B, just out of interest, are there any other markings in that book that have the same kind of format as this? I.E., 'Schupo. Place name. Number'? All the other police bayonets I have seen (and they are not my especial interest, so just a cursory look-around) have the format as posted above in no. 130. If this mark stands alone, that is to say, there is nothing else similar to it, I can only think that a possible explanation might be the odd status of Danzig as a free city between the wars, nominally at least completely independent of both Germany and Poland, but subject of course to great influence from Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpcooke Posted 16 December , 2014 Share Posted 16 December , 2014 Hi All, Am fairly new here but thought I'd try to get some help regarding an 1871 I picked up today. It has an Erfurt 1881 date. The unit marks are 34.R.E.1.135. I've tried to find copies of Jeff Noll's book tonight but looks like they sold out long ago. Blade manufacturer is GEBR. Weyersberg in Solingen. Can anyone help me decipher these unit markings? Thanks! Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 16 December , 2014 Share Posted 16 December , 2014 Hi Greg, I think the mark is "Infanterie-Regiment 34, Ersatz-Bataillon, Kompagnie 1, Waffe Nr. 135". Found a similar example in Noll. The advert for his new reprint is below, you can email him on the address: "The Imperial German Regimental Marking [Revised Edition]" by Jeff Noll is available again. This Redux publication is spiral bound with a color cover (w/clear plastic top cover), printed on 28 pound paper, 198 pages and is the same as my original printed and bound hardcover book. It will be produced in very small quantities. Price is $80 plus $5.60 Priority mail postage (USA). Non-USA addresses-I will ship per your preference. Shipping weight is 1.75 pounds. Other shipping methods are always available at buyers direction. Personal checks are fine. Please mail to: Jeff Noll, P.O.Box 7184, Ventura, CA, USA 93006-7184. Paypal is also available for everyone (Foreign and USA). My Paypal address is; nopubl@earthlink.net Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpcooke Posted 16 December , 2014 Share Posted 16 December , 2014 Thanks much, Tony! I thought that it might have been an Ersatz, or replacement, Battalion after I did a little more research last night. Would the 34 Infantry Regiment be the same as the 34th Division? As I was reading last night I found out the 34th was a Prussian Division that played a significant role through WWI. I was reading on another site that the replacement battalions were made up of surviving units from other outfits as they became too small to be effective. They were evidently consolidated and assigned as reinforcements for larger units, like the 34th. The 34th was active from 1890-1919. It's interesting that this 1881 manufactured bayonet would have only this one unit mark on the locket, with none on the cross piece. Seems odd that an older bayonet would have been issued to a troop in a replacement battalion. It was in pretty bad condition when I got it, but it cleaned up nicely. I wonder if it may have been an early trophy of some kind. I'll ask the person I bought it from if he knows anything about it. Thanks again, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2014 Hi Greg, I think the mark is "Infanterie-Regiment 34, Ersatz-Bataillon, Kompagnie 1, Waffe Nr. 135". Found a similar example in Noll. Well done Tony, I am away from home so don't have access to a Noll. I could find no record on any of the German sites for a 34 Reserve Ersatz (Regiment) 34, which "34.R.E." should mean on the basis of the 1909 regulations. The nearest possibility I could see was also the Brigade-Ersatz-Bataillon Nr. 34. But I hesitated to suggest that as my downloaded copy of the 1905 regulations specifically states the use of a Roman letter 'B' for Brigade, and so I would have thought that the unit would have marked their weapons something like "34.B.E." - on the basis that weapon markings go from big to little, and so from Brigade to Ersatz. So, another exception to test the rule??!! ... Would the 34 Infantry Regiment be the same as the 34th Division? ...The 34th was active from 1890-1919. It's interesting that this 1881 manufactured bayonet would have only this one unit mark on the locket, with none on the cross piece. Greg Hi Greg, Not the same thing I'm afraid! As I understand it, so happy to be corrected, on mobilisation in 1914 each Infantry Brigade established a brigade reserve battalion which received the the same number as the Brigade, each with 2 replacement companies. Assuming this mark is for the Brigade-Ersatz-Bataillon Nr. 34, it was established on 2 August 1914, as part of the 34. Infanterie-Brigade (Großherzoglich Mecklenburgische). But it looks like the first 2 companies had different histories, e.g., one going to the Infanterie Regiment Nr. 362 as its II Bataillon, while the other went to the Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 210. All that apart, this mark is on the locket? So, are we talking about a leather scabbard? It would be very nice to have a photograph - especially to confirm that it is "34.R.E." and not "34.R.B.". Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpcooke Posted 18 December , 2014 Share Posted 18 December , 2014 Here's the locket... http://www.fototime.com/76E3DF777EBFF2A/standard.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 19 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2014 Here's the locket... http://www.fototime.com/76E3DF777EBFF2A/standard.jpg Thanks - very nice and clear markings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 20 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 20 December , 2014 Here's one that's waiting for me when I get back to Ankara in January, courtesy of my dear wifey who went looking for another S71 for me on the web! She won't say where she found it and the photograph is not good, but the details are: W/76, Clemen and Jung, Solingen, marked 67.R.6.45. So, I guess, 4. Magdeburgisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr.67, Company 6, weapon 45. So that would be the II Battalion... SS, by the way, has one the same type, but lacking regimental markings - http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=179457 post 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 23 December , 2014 Share Posted 23 December , 2014 These are the markings on my Delville Wood souvenir bayonet as posted here. Pic is best I can do in the bad light available. The scabbard and bayonet are to two different units but both Bavarian reserve regiments (so I believe). Bayonet says B.19.R.6.20, scabbard says B.4.R.2.24. The ruthless cleaning wasn't done by me or the previous owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 23 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 23 December , 2014 Nice markings though! Got to dash, but off-hand, I'd say - Kgl. Bayer. 4. Infanterie-Regiment König Wilhelm von Württemberg, with a potted history at: http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/4._IR_(KB) And Kgl. Bayer. 16. Infanterie-Regiment Großherzog Ferdinand von Toskana, with a potted history at: http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/16._IR_(KB) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high wood Posted 7 January , 2015 Share Posted 7 January , 2015 A M1898 by C G Haenel of Suhl and dated 1908. Marked B.4.R.16.213 (4th Bavarian Infantry Regiment (Koneg Wilhelm V (Wutemburg)) 16th Kompany. Waffe 213. Sadly it has been separated from its scabbard. As it came from a house clearance it was probably a souvenir brought home from France or Flanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 7 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2015 A very nice find there! Yes, the Königlich Bayerischen 4. Infant.-Regt. “König Wilhelm v. Württemberg” 2. Komp., Waffe 243 - they were at Metz in 1914. I am not at home, but I have found a record in my files of another S.98 issued to this unit, this one spine marked 'O/05', for King Otto, 1905 - what is the spine fraktur mark on yours? Those look like 'S' frakturs on the pommel? But I don't know which version of Fraktur alphabet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high wood Posted 7 January , 2015 Share Posted 7 January , 2015 Here is the spine fraktur mark: Konig Otto 1907. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 7 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2015 Thnaks! Can't check right now but it reminds me of the 'S' fraktur found on the Gottscho bayonets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 7 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2015 Well, they are "S" frakturs but not quite the same as those found on the Gottschos, which is a bit of a relief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 2 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 2 February , 2015 Time for a nice update! In fact a couple of probable pre-1909 Landwehr markings that took a bit of research, one on an unmodified Chassepot the other on a S71 scabbard locket. They were first discussed and illustrated at: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=222940#entry2221719so this is a cross-reference for completness. The one on the unmodified Chassepot is: "117.L.I.4.106."; the one on the S71 scabbard locket is: "26.L.I.1.185". As I understand it, then according to the 1877 Vorschrift über das Bezeichnen und Numerieren pp. 51-52, these are battalion markings for the respective Landwehr regiment - "117.L.I.4.106" for 117.L(andwehr-Regiment).I(Bataillon).4(Kompagnie).(Waffe)106., and "26.L.I.1.185" for 26.L(andwehr-Regiment).I(Bataillon).1(Kompagnie).(Waffe)185. This type of marking does not seem to be listed in the 1909 regulations, which suggests that they were done before then. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 2 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 2 February , 2015 Forgot to note the other unit mark on the S71 locket - '118.R.4.226'. So with that italic 'R' that's the 1909 regulation marking for the '118 R(eserve Infanterie-Regiment),4 (Kompagnie), (Waffe) 226', with a history at: http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/RIR_118 Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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