Why did Regulars join non-local regiments?

[Pat Atkins]

Another thread (post 1999368) mentioned a Kent man who had joined the 2^nd Bn South Lancs as a peacetime regular in 1908.

My grandfather was London born-and-bred and joined the same battalion on 25th June 1906, and I have never been able to work out why he joined this particular unit. Certainly there was no family connection to the North West, as far as I know.

He transferred to 5th Signals Coy in 1913 but was at Le Cateau, as were 2nd S Lancs of course; he was made POW there and I have often wondered if he came across old comrades either during the Retreat or in captivity.

Anyway, I'd be very grateful for any light anyone might be able to shed.

Cheers,Pat

[centurion]

Whilst regiments had a depot in their local area individual battalions could from time to time be almost anywhere in the UK (and for that matter the Empire) and might pick up recruits from wherever they were at the time. It would be useful if you could find where the 2n Btn S Lancs were in 1906.

[Chris_Baker]

They had been at Shorncliffe in Kent but moved during 1906 to Farnborough.

[johnboy]

If you can find a service record for him, you might see where he enlisted.

[archangel9]

I have a similar example. London born, of German ancestry, with no Irish connection that I can find, yet he joined the Royal Irish Regiment at Barnet in January 1906.

[centurion]

So the simple answer may well be that although they were not local they were in the locality at the time.

[Coldstreamer]

Perhaps joined up with mates ?

[clinxx]

It was my post about my grandfather that started this thread.

When I first became interested in my grandfather's war it was a huge surprise to find a) that he was a regular and b0 we was with 2SL. Our family definitely had no Lancashire connection (they moved from Somerset in about the 1860s). My mother could shed no light on why he joined or where. I might look at any military activity of other family members to see which regiments they joined but that's a project in waiting.

I got hold of information from the regimental museum and raised the 'why 2SL' question. The response was that the regiment was based at Tidworth and was recruiting 'in London' at that time. Now that information itself must have come from records held somewhere, presumably now at Preston.

My grandfather came from Bexley, which is now part of London. Back in 1908 it was still a country village very much in Kent, even though it had a 40min commute railway line. I don't think any resident in those days would have identified himself as being in London. The local regiment would have been Royal West Kent, or possibly the RA, given the proximity of Woolwich - which had been part of Kent until 1889.

But I found nothing to explain why a Kent man joined 2SL in 'London'. His records don't give any more accurate location for enlistment.

[johnboy]

His records don't give any more accurate location for enlistment.

If his attestment form is in his records does it just say London?

[Pat Atkins]

Thanks to all who have responded so far! There could be a lot in what Centurion says about locality over local, and Farnborough (thank you, Chris) is closer to London than Tidworth and might correspondingly have recruited more easily from the capital at the time. I can't really see an 18-year-old builder's labourer travelling out of London to enlist. Unfortunately, none of my family's service records survive.

That's very interesting about your grandfather, thanks clinxx; I'll try the regimental museum myself too. Do you think he might have gone to the big city in search of adventure and joined up there? Or perhaps recruiting sergeants still toured the countryside? As you say, you'd expect the RWK to be his obvious choice. Jack Atkins came from a typical London household but not a very happy one I think. His younger brother Herbert also joined the Army as soon as he could, although he was in the Royal Fusiliers which is a bit more understandable.

Jack never mentioned his family to his children (nor his Army career - he was discharged in 1926 but briefly recalled for the start of the Second World war as a training CSM), so there's not much to go on. For example it was only when I started to look into his Army past that the existence of three brothers and a sister came to light. Two of the three brothers were killed in the War (on the same day, but in different theatres), perhaps that was a contributory factor of course.

Anyway, I appreciate your help, and if I find out anything that might be of interest I'll post it.

[stevem49]

You got sent wherever the Army needed men. It was always thus.

[centurion]

You got sent wherever the Army needed men. It was always thus.

Not pre WW1

[archangel9]

So the simple answer may well be that although they were not local they were in the locality at the time.

Perhaps it is as simple as that.

Thanks

[stevem49]

My Gt Grandfather was born near Grantham but living in Derbyshire. When he enlisted in Ripley Derbyshire it was to a Scottish Regiment. When he arrived at Aldershot they needed men for the Zulu war and he ended up in the King's Own. To my knowledge he had never visited Scotland or Lancashire for that matter.

[clinxx]

My grandfather's attestation and army records don't survive. All I have are his paybook and discharge certificate, which say 'London'.

But thinking further, Woolwich was only a single tram ride away from Bexley, and easy to get to from over half of London. It's a town I know well and there wasn't much of it that wasn't military. Although there would have been other isolated barracks and depots all over London I can't think of any other 'army town' in the metropolis.

If a man wanted to join the army my guess is that Woolwich was the obvious place for him to go and that recruiting was done there by many regiments, not just the RA. There would have been a ready supply of applicants in Woolwich who could be diverted to any regiment short of recruits in its home location.

And at a large recruiting centre with a high throughput it would have been possible to match applicants with regiments offering the type of soldiering they wanted to do. That would be very sensible in a small professional army in peacetime.

Conjecture, I know.

Incidentally, this subject suggests that peacetime regiments probably had a degree, perhaps small, of diversity in their men's origin than the wartime regiments which could, and sometimes did, decimate a locality or group of pals.

[clinxx]

Sorry for levity, Steve, but I wonder what an Englishman would have thought when enlisting into a Scottish regiment! Joining the army would have been a big enough shock to the system but wearing a kilt without, er, accoutrements....

[ss002d6252]

My grandfather was London born-and-bred and joined the same battalion on 25th June 1906, and I have never been able to work out why he joined this particular unit. Certainly there was no family connection to the North West, as far as I know.

When I looked at the annual army returns I was surprised by how many men joined battalions outside of their own area. This report only identified those who enlisted in one recruiting district for a regiment of another recruiting area, it doesn't differentiate those who travelled to another area and then enlisted in to the regiment based in that area.

This is part of the report for 1908 for an example.

Craig

[centurion]

My Gt Grandfather was born near Grantham but living in Derbyshire. When he enlisted in Ripley Derbyshire it was to a Scottish Regiment. When he arrived at Aldershot they needed men for the Zulu war and he ended up in the King's Own. To my knowledge he had never visited Scotland or Lancashire for that matter.

And at that time he would have to volunteer for the transfer

[centurion]

If the "visiting" regiment was actively recruiting and the local one already had a full compliment and wasn't you'd expect that men who had an inclination to join up would go to a non local unit..

[clinxx]

Craig. I'm very new to this and don't know what over-arching military records were maintained, let alone where to find them. Are those 'Annual Army Returns' available online anywhere?

[stevem49]

According to his papers, a number of men 'volunteered' to go!!

His recruiting Sgt, was in 54th Regiment (Dorset's)

After fighting with the Boers against the Zulu's in 1879, he was recalled in 1900 to fight the Boers !

Clinxx

Probably why the family all dislike the pipes It has been bred into us to do so.

[ss002d6252]

Are those 'Annual Army Returns' available online anywhere?

They are but only from a subscription site (which uses an academic login).

Is there anything specific you were after ?

Craig

[Robindad]

My grandfather was London born-and-bred and joined the same battalion on 25th June 1906, and I have never been able to work out why he joined this particular unit. Certainly there was no family connection to the North West, as far as I know.

Anyway, I'd be very grateful for any light anyone might be able to shed.

Cheers,Pat

Hello Pat

My family are from Yorkshire and on my mother's side very much of York and surroundings. My grandfather joined the 5th Royal Irish Lancers in York in 1906 shortly after his 16th birthday. I too wondered why? Grandma said it was because he'd joined another regiment and came home asking to get out ... so when he decided he did want to join up they said off to Ireland so he could not run back home...

Not sure about the story but The 5th Royal Irish Lancers were based in York for some years and definitely there in 1909

R

[Pat Atkins]

Hello Pat

My family are from Yorkshire and on my mother's side very much of York and surroundings. My grandfather joined the 5th Royal Irish Lancers in York in 1906 shortly after his 16th birthday. I too wondered why? Grandma said it was because he'd joined another regiment and came home asking to get out ... so when he decided he did want to join up they said off to Ireland so he could not run back home...

Not sure about the story but The 5th Royal Irish Lancers were based in York for some years and definitely there in 1909

R

This sounds like a similar case to my own grandfather's, doesn't it? Also Steve Morse's East Midland Jock (I use the term as in "Tommy and Jock" rather than in any derogatory sense, before anyone picks me up - half my family's men were Jocks). I'd be interested to find out about the recruiting process pre-War, whether regiments in an area or city would perhaps hire a hall or use a drill hall to recruit from. Or maybe they still sent recruiting sergeants out round the pubs? And in the surrounding countryside also, maybe? I expect it varied from regiment to regiment, if not battalion to battalion.

I do wonder though if there's evidence to support clinxx's possible recruiting "hub" at Woolwich with a number of regiments recruiting in the same place, and whether this might have been a pattern repeated in other major cities? Will have a hunt around t'internet: I feel this question is crying out either for a lucky break or a specialist, really.

Cheers,

Pat

[clinxx]

I've stumbled upon a slender link between my Kentish Grandfather and the South Lancashire regiment. His family origins are in Somerset and the 40th Foot, which with the 82nd Foot became 1 and 2 South Lancs in the Childers reforms, were the former 2nd Somersetshire Regiment of Foot. So there may have been some family link after all.

A quick survey of the Wikipedia details of the Childers reforms shows that most old regiments were reorganised into new regiments related to their existing area but there are a few seemingly random combinations, South Lancs being one. So in the mid 1800s we have a period of very substantial family mobility and then in 1881 a regimental reorganisation that occasionally ignored previous alignments.

Using my case as an example perhaps a cousin remained in Somerset, joined up there, found himself moved to Warrington and told his now far-flung relations that it was a good regiment to join. I doubt this would be an isolated occurrence.

Still supposition, I know, but it may be useful to look at the history of the regiment as well as the individual.