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Remembered Today:

Proposed new Memorial Park at Pozières


J Banning

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Thanks, have just read the background and signed the petition.

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Like so many others I was suspicious, then horrified from the beginning by the scheme, and am truly appalled by that horrendous "Animal Memorial".

 

I am, despite their rudeness when originally challenged, (Mr Gracey posted a couple of times here before stalking away), inclined to the view that the original intention of the Graceys was   genuine enough.  What followed later was crazy, and they have at least in part, paid the price.

 

I'm more concerned about the further loads of bricks or whatever, which, unless handled with more intelligence and thought than that animal memorial, might well disfigure the Pozieres area further.

 

Keith

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4 hours ago, keithmroberts said:

Like so many others I was suspicious, then horrified from the beginning by the scheme, and am truly appalled by that horrendous "Animal Memorial".

 

I am, despite their rudeness when originally challenged, (Mr Gracey posted a couple of times here before stalking away), inclined to the view that the original intention of the Graceys was   genuine enough.  What followed later was crazy, and they have at least in part, paid the price.

 

I'm more concerned about the further loads of bricks or whatever, which, unless handled with more intelligence and thought than that animal memorial, might well disfigure the Pozieres area further.

 

Keith

Spiot on.

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The animal memorial is not PRA it is AWAMO 

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To be honest, I once believed in the noblesse of the project and had some email exchanges with Barry Gracey for which I was very pleased. Gracey tried to convince me that my reservations were unfounded. I came from a very different "Pozieres" standpoint, that of my fallen countrymen to be respected in the future construction process.

I am convinced in the beginning it was an honest benchmark in Barry's life. But over time the project went berserk obviously.

Here is my last Email-exchange with my open points which Gracey answered all for my satisfaction then. This exchange documents his once devoted job, did it?

 

: Egbert......
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 10:17 PM
To: barryg..........
Subject: Pozieres project
 
Dear Mr Gracey,
it only happened today that I became aware of your Pozieres project. I read the thread and your information on the GWF forum. I am both, concerned and thrilled. Why? Please read a couple of first impression thoughts from my German military background:
 
IF the project will come as planned,
  • will the German dead still lying there be ploughed under again or covered with concrete during/after construction work?
  • will the present silent remains of the German windmill stronghold destroyed and a reconstructed mill be erected on the same spot? 
  • will Australia recognize the ultimate sacrifices of the German soldiers kia in Pozieres fairly (right or wrong my country), or will there be a sole glorification of diggers in the exhibitions?
  • does the association recognize the prevailing European character of reconciliation?
  • is the association aware that this is holy land for ALL former belligerents (to include Germans) and that the association and the project therefore has a special responsibility to perpetuate this character?
I believe the project is a better alternative than maybe a future housing project when the present landlord gives up his profession. That is why I wish you luck with fund raising and project prosper.
But again, can the future German Somme visitors be certain that our military forefathers, our Grandfathers, are being treated fairly and with same respect as the diggers on site?
 
BTW, I always stop at the windmill when visiting the Somme as happened last July when the BBC filmed my Grandfathers story in Thiepval. Your secretary Yvonne was a vivid bystander at my filming (see the clip:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b040n6wz
 
All the very best
 
Egbert ..........
Colonel (ret.) German Air Force
 
Dear Egbert
 
Thank you for your email.
 
To allay your concerns,
 
1.    Any Soldiers of any nationality found during the works will be treated with all the respect that I would demand for Australian Soldiers.
2.    The remains of the windmill will not be touched.  The Moulin Association of Pozieres will be building a copy of the windmill as it was before the fighting, but this will be done further back in the Park  and the current windmill site will be untouched.
3.  This is not an Australian Project.  This is a Project of our Association, the Windmill Association of Pozieres, and we hope to get some support of the French and German Governments.  Our Government said NO.  This will not be totally Australian, as we had always intended to erect statutes to both the Brandenburg Division and the Prussian Guard.  They were Soldiers just like our Men, and should be honoured as well.  What we will be able to do will depend on how much money I can raise, but the sacrifices of German Soldiers will be recognised.
4.    Yes, the Association does recognise the European character of reconciliation. I was a Soldier in the Australian Army for 27 years, and I always intended that the project would be tri-national, not glorify war, and merely educate and inform as to what happened at Pozieres, and recognise the sacrifices of Our Soldiers, your Soldiers, French Soldiers and the civilians in the area that were affected by the Battle.
5.    I am aware that this is HOLY Ground.  Pozieres saw the greatest loss of life in Battle that Australia has ever had, so it is an important site for us. This area is described by Charles Bean the Australian Military Historian as the one place on earth most drenched in Australian sacrifice.  The German Soldiers of Pozieres also fell in their droves there.  At the moment I have raised enough money to fence the Park, level and grass it.  How good the park becomes depends on how much money I can raise, but rest assured that this land will be protected into the future and visitors will be able to walk in a lovely grassed park.  As little of the park as  possible will be built on or concreted, with the majority being reserved for grassed and garden areas.  If you wish to see the draft plans they can be found on our web page www.pozieresremembered.com.au on the Memorial Park page.
 
For information Egbert, our Secretary Yvonne is my wife, and I will forward this to her computer as I am sure she would like to keep you updated on how things are going.  Her email  pozieres1916@bigpond.com  is the best email to get us on as I am leaving on Tuesday for a 4,000 km fund raising trip  around the eastern states of Australia.  She will be at home, and will be able to contact me at all times if you need any other advice.
 
She is excited at the moment as she has just got a copy of the film clip of her watching your display at Thiepval.
 
Please keep in touch with us, and we will be able to update you as we go.  We cannot get to Pozieres this year as I will be hard at work raising money, but we will be there for the 99th Anniversary in 2015.
 
If we do not see you in 2015, I hope you will be here for the opening of the Park and the Centenary on 23rd July 2016.
 
Barry Gracey
Warrant Officer Class 2 (Company Sergeant Major) Retired
 
 
 
 
Edited by egbert
deletion of actual email addresses
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I could never see the need another memorial at Pozieres, especially as the official Australian Windmill site memorial has already been in place there for many years and is ably maintained by the CWGC. Why did they want to construct there own "private memorial" right next door to the official one? I think perhaps that the Graceys and others may have been unconsciously building a memorial to themselves. There was no need to fence off part of the battlefield, establish garden beds, lay lawns and install concrete pathways on this sacred ground in the first place. A memorial already exists on the site, just leave the land as the farm field that it always was. Together with the proposed reconstruction of the mill, I just think they were trying to create a theme park. Probably would have vendors selling military artefacts, together with snacks and coffee like they do at Lochnagar Crater. Very questionable the whole project - especially with the presentation of French Legion D'Honneur awards and Order of Australia medals to the organisers who it seems were all seeking recognition and the limelight. What then do have to show for all this today - a disgusting, tacky animal war memorial and an Australian organiser found guilty of fraud in a court of law. That's all that has been achieved in this fiasco that started about 7-8 years ago.

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With all due respect and recognising the fact I am not a fan of the Graceys ... the animal memorial is not PRA ... it is AWAMO.

 

http://awamo.org.au/first-overseas-awamo-memorial/

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3 hours ago, Fedelmar said:

With all due respect and recognising the fact I am not a fan of the Graceys ... the animal memorial is not PRA ... it is AWAMO.

 

http://awamo.org.au/first-overseas-awamo-memorial/

Hi Fedelmar, I see you're over in the West, I'm the other side in Queensland. I note one of your interests is the 11th Battalion - my great uncle was with them. He was killed in Second Bullecourt and never found. I managed, with difficulty, a couple of years ago to finally get his name put on the Bunbury War Memorial as it had been missing for nearly 95 years! A local military historian in Bunbury did a fantastic job in helping me out - it wouldn't have happened without his great work. Can't say the same thing about the "official" channels I initially asked for help - they were next to useless. I see one of your other interests is the Australian Railway Company - my great grandfather was an engine driver in France. He was the father of the 11th Battalion bloke above. Both worked for the WA Government Railways before the war and were both from Bunbury. The old boy survived an aerial bombing on his train when they were parked up in the railway station in Doullens - about 3 others with him were killed. Interestingly, one was a Frenchman who was his signals interpreter. I tried to find the site of the station a couple of years ago but it's now a large supermarket. The railway corridor leading into it is still there however. I also had another great uncle in the 16th - another one of your interests. He was badly wounded at Pozieres and returned to Australia - he actually was a Queenslander who was working in Collie. His brother, my great grandfather, was killed at Fromelles and identified in 2016. My wife, daughter and myself attended the ceremony in Fromelles when his (and others) headstone was dedicated. The ceremony also coincided with the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Fromelles.

I'm aware that the animal memorial is down to the AWAMO - they appear to be a decent, well intentioned group, obviously all animal lovers. What I don't understand is how they got tied up with the PRA and the Graceys - to the point where the Pozieres memorial gets scrapped, and an animal memorial gets built in its intended place. I'm thinking that surely the AWAMO must have had to make a financial contribution to someone to allow this to happen - can't imagine it was just a kind gesture by the PRA or the French Mill Rebuild crowd who were tied up with the Graceys. The PRA were claiming that they'd purchased the land but this has since been disproven. I'm led to believe that the land is owned by a Pozieres local.

I just wonder if the AWAMO actually realise the significance of the site on which they have chosen to erect their memorial? As their chief interest is animals killed in war, I don't think so - they would probably be happy with any other site in Northern France. Pozieres somehow became a convenient place for them. I've been on their Facebook page looking at the opening day of the animal war memorial - they speak of "tears in eyes", "an emotional day", "memories never to be forgotten" etc, etc. What concerns me is that all this outpouring of emotion is for the animals and not the diggers who still lay there!

A lot of people (myself included) would love to see that tacky animal memorial removed. I can't see it happening as it's on private land erected with the owner's permission. It would take the equivalent of a Royal Commission to figure out what has gone on at Pozieres with the number of self interested characters involved. Yvonne Hall's recent conviction in NSW is only the small part of the whole story. For the last 5 years I have been living in nearby Authuille for 6 months of the year - can't now because of Covid. I've watched this whole debacle unfold and have a fair idea of what's gone on. It's a bloody disgrace and it's why I'm so annoyed about the whole thing.

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Hi again Fedelmar,

Hope I haven't confused you when I have spoken about "my great grandfather" - one killed and one survived. I should have pointed out that the engine driver was my paternal great grandfather and the bloke killed at Fromelles, my maternal great grandfather.

Regards,

Bruce

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4 hours ago, Bruce L said:

Hi again Fedelmar,

Hope I haven't confused you when I have spoken about "my great grandfather" - one killed and one survived. I should have pointed out that the engine driver was my paternal great grandfather and the bloke killed at Fromelles, my maternal great grandfather.

Regards,

Bruce

Thanks for the information about your family and well done on getting the commemoration sorted.
A great uncle was in the 11th Bn, his brother was in the 16th and another brother in the 44th Bn DOW and buried in Nine Elms.  My grandfather was 5th ABGROC and a fireman based in Geraldton WA, where the replica 11th Bn Leane's trench is located.

This website will probably answer a lot of your questions.  I note there is an update regarding people requiring refunds for bricks.

https://sites.google.com/view/pozieres-assoc-investigation/home?fbclid=IwAR3r6TVKIJz4q6LcBzwQXSwKklSSpBVwpqrUXfSyCqgjuqf4d33zQoNobew

 

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1 hour ago, Fedelmar said:

 

Hi Fedelmar, just checked my great grandfather's AIF file on the NAA site and see that he was also 5th ABGROC - same as your grandfather, Corporal Charles Austin that you have listed. it's a small world, wonder if they knew each other?

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9 hours ago, Bruce L said:

Hi Fedelmar, just checked my great grandfather's AIF file on the NAA site and see that he was also 5th ABGROC - same as your grandfather, Corporal Charles Austin that you have listed. it's a small world, wonder if they knew each other?

I have often wondered who knew who 

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  • 2 weeks later...

There is now a petition, which has been started in Australia, to have Yvonne Hall (wife of Barry Gracey) stripped of her French award of the Legion of D'Honneur as a result of her recent court appearance in New South Wales. She was charged with, and pleaded guilty to, the fraudulent use of funds raised by the Pozieres Remembrance Association of which she and her husband were directors.

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There is the link to the petition in my previous post.

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18 hours ago, Fedelmar said:

 

Thank you for this.  Petition signed.

 

all the best

 

Jonathan

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  • 2 weeks later...

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