Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

Proposed new Memorial Park at Pozières


Recommended Posts

Gareth Davies

5.0 What has Charles Beans opinion got to do with this, as for not much will be built on just look at the plans

Norman

About as much as your opinion?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote

"This will not be totally Australian, as we had always intended to erect statutes to both the Brandenburg Division and the Prussian Guard. They were Soldiers just like our Men, and should be honoured as well. What we will be able to do will depend on how much money I can raise, but the sacrifices of German Soldiers will be recognised"

Looks as though another flagpole will be required. for did not the British fight here as well?

post-21884-0-46027600-1396786831_thumb.j

Norman

.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Neil Mackenzie

Personally I like the idea of a park and totally understand why the Australians would want to have something here. A visitors centre/admin block (including a bit of parking and toilets) off to the far left hand side of the site as shown on the current plans would not be out of place.

I would add a circular walk way from the parking area to the current site with, along the way, some means of telling the story of ALL who fought and died there. Some means of identifying the trench lines on the site would also be nice.

I could do without the faux windmill reconstruction to be honest. However well it is done I cannot really see it adding to the site and, with the other constructions it would seem to be obstructing at least some of the vista from the current site.

Inevitably there will be an Australian bias in anything that is delivered - it is a site that means more to Australia than it does to any of the other countries involved. However, in this day and age if you are building on an historic site like this you should try and tell the full story irrespective of who has come up with the funding. Hopefully this will be the intention of the Project.

Neil

Link to post
Share on other sites

... did not the British fight here as well?

.

Not too sure whether or not they did on that actual site (in 1916 that is ... the Brits retreated (then advanced) over that site in 1918 though). However, the Canadians were certainly there (they relieved the Aussies)

Dave

post-357-0-21700700-1396787319_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Si we can add the Canadians to the list, by the way I thought that this park was to commemorate the battle for Pozieres not the actual field!

Norman

Link to post
Share on other sites
keithmroberts

It's good to know that the actual windmill site will not be disturbed. I remain uncomfortable about the overall impact on the area and on the perspectives from round about. The dummy windmill does seem the most extreme feature, and is arguably the most contentious single aspect of the development. It is interesting that basically the team taking the project forward are making a decision that presumably is the reverse of that made originally by the Australian Government when it decided on it's plans to commemorate Australia's effort and sacrifice.

So be it, and in the end, Imperial forces were there to enable the French authorities to run their own country.

I'm far from enamoured, and although addtional toilets are always welcome on the Somme, I normally seek my comfort breaks at Le Tommy, but I just hope that when the scheme comes to fruition, it does not detract too much from the overall perspectives of the battlefield.

Keith

Link to post
Share on other sites

As Keith reminds us, the proposals leave the existing commemorative site intact. The farmer has now given over the adjacent land for the project, far better than it be sold on for some other use. We have no right to dictate what he does with his land or to expect that he gives it up for the sake of commemoration, in my mind we should be thankful that he has.

On a separate note, Norman why do you bring up La Boiselle again when you don't know the full facts and haven't spoken to the either side: "There is to my mind a parallel here in the current situation with the “Glory Hole” at La Boisselle where I understand that the owner of the land has suspended any further excavations due to various concerns". Your unwarranted speculation (and that of others) led that topic to be locked.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As Keith reminds us, the proposals leave the existing commemorative site intact. The farmer has now given over the adjacent land for the project, far better than it be sold on for some other use. We have no right to dictate what he does with his land or to expect that he gives it up for the sake of commemoration, in my mind we should be thankful that he has.

Very well said, I concur.

I give the association a chance.....

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 6 months later...

Well to answers peoples question about an archaeological survey. One was done of the fields of the proposed memorial park. It was carried out by my organisation Fallen Diggers Inc. The survey was carried out by Professor John Hunter and the team from Fallen Diggers. I was not present due to other work commitments. The method used was resistivity survey. The results are being shared with the Australian Army mainly the Unrecovered War casualty Unit and the Office of Australian war Graves. The survey was carried out between 13th and 17th of October.

post-98197-0-33317100-1413790930_thumb.j

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Dennis, presumably the DRAC Picardie (Direction regionale des affaires culturelles) are being kept fully informed?

Keith

Link to post
Share on other sites

G'day Kieth,

yes DRAC Picardie fully informed. We had to get their approval for the survey. We had the land owners permission and the Mayor of Pozieres approval. We then proceeded to DRAC with all our paper work. Our archaeologist follow laws and protocols of the country we are working in.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Dennis.

Keith

EDIT

Norman. it seems quite clear from the reply by Dennis that all steps undertaken as part of this project will be taken under proper French authority. If there is a need to involve CWGC or MOD I am sure they will be kept informed and brought into the loop, of course they may be so already.

The steps required before any construction will have to be cleared with DRAC, and yes, at some point ground will therefore be disturbed under their authority. My reservations about the scheme are stated in earlier posts, but the key assurance that we should welcome is that work will be carried out only with the agreement of DRAC, which always insists on professional standards and appropriate care and respect for the fallen. The actual timescales are not relevant as long as the work is undertaken properly. K

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Norman,

If you see my first post, our survey results are being shared with Office Of Australian War Graves who liaise with CWGC. The Australian Military attache in Paris was fully informed as well.

Thank you

Dennis

Link to post
Share on other sites

As Keith summoned it up "....will be taken under proper French authority...."

The British MoD has absolutely nothing to say or needs to be involved, neither the German MoD or Australian MoD (the Australian military attachee was probably courtesy involved because it is a French/Australien project or because the project will be supported by the Australian Army?)..

The CWGC or German VdK will only be necessary to be involved when British/German soldiers are found and recovered respectively the AWGC when Australian bodies are found,

The French officials will then decide upon their usual procedures whom to contact and approach for further action. This is French national territory!

@Dennis: thanks for the update!

Link to post
Share on other sites

No problems. I will keep you guys posted with the results. Which we will have roughly in 3 weeks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

A magnetometry survey could be interesting - though I guess there might be too much buried metal to make sense of.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Phil,

DRAC Picardie would not allow it or any type of Metal Detector. Its actually illegal to use in the Somme Area unless you have permission. That permission is very hard to obtain if you were to use that method. It is why our archaeologist chose Resistivity Survey. We might even go back and do a survey with a GPR not sure, its only at talking stage ATM.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting - presumably there is an issue with unexploded ordnance? A friend has been using the technique on three Roman sites near me - with some good results.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dennis

Has the proposal changed since the original plans were shown? I noticed that the survey was taking place over a much larger area than the 'triangle' shown on the plans.

John

Link to post
Share on other sites

No it hasn't changed, the survey was actually over a smaller area. I cannot speak for Pozieres Remembrance Association. I can only speak for my Organsitaion.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply

One of the areas that was being surveyed last week I have marked in blue on the attached map, sorry sea dog for hijacking your map!

That area is outside the area shown in the plans, hence my original question.

15416240409_2ea68ae3b5_o.jpg
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, that area in Blue was a survey undertaken by Fallen Diggers Inc. Nothing to do with the Memorial Park. We undertook that survey to find the dugout in which Albert Jacka with 7 of his men ambushed Germans with 48th Battalion Prisoners.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...