Cynthia Posted 25 April , 2003 Share Posted 25 April , 2003 One of my co-workers volunteers at our local antique car museum, and knowing of my interest in World War One (I think the poppies decorating my office and Wilfred Owen's poem on the bulletin board are giveaways, not to mention my evangelical fervour when talking about the War to anyone who will listen!) he mentioned women ambulance drivers. He then asked, "How many women, nurses, drivers and other personnel, were killed in the War?" I confess I do not know the answer to that one. Anyone out there have an idea? He has started to come into my office more often and ask questions about the Great War, so I am sensing a convert here, possibly even a new Baker Pal! Appreciate any response. Cynthia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lesley Posted 25 April , 2003 Share Posted 25 April , 2003 Cynthia, an excellent question. I can only find references to women going overseas, mainly as nurses e.g. with the Red Cross and Queen Alexandra's Imperial Nursing service. I can find no references to any deaths. Possibly it was considered bad for morale to report female deaths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 25 April , 2003 Share Posted 25 April , 2003 Cynthia I can't answer for all classes of women, but 198 British army nurses lost their lives on active service during the war. The number includes members of both Queen Alexandra's Imperial Military Nursing Service [QAIMNS] and the Territorial Force Nursing Service [TFNS]. This figure does not include members of the Voluntary Aid Detachments. Regards - Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham-McAdam Posted 25 April , 2003 Share Posted 25 April , 2003 We had a discussion about these figures about six months ago, didn't we - it'll still be sitting somewhere on a hidden page! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia Posted 25 April , 2003 Author Share Posted 25 April , 2003 Dear Lesley, I never thought about the morale issue, but it could certainly be possible. Just today I noticed something about the CWGC posting the deaths of 8 Queen Alexandra's Imperial Military Nursing members who died in the the Great War. Thanks to Chris's new link on Women's Services, I thought I might see if anything there might tell me. Not finding any stats, I randomly started with QARIMN and found out that little fact! There must be some indication. Would the most recent CWGC Annual Report break the numbers down by gender? I don't recall that in previous reports. Cynthia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 25 April , 2003 Share Posted 25 April , 2003 My Medal Year Book states circa 600 memorial plaques were awarded to the next of kin of women who died whilst on active service in a foreign theatre. It would be interesting to know if when you find a final number it also includes those who "died" at home - which would be mostly from natural causes, possibly the odd one from a zeppelin attack but more obviously numbers (both home and abroad) would be inflated by Spanish Flu victims throughout 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 25 April , 2003 Share Posted 25 April , 2003 Search for Jim Strawbridge's posting a couple of months ago. He is the expert on women !!!! (in the Great War that is). He has a complete list including some who do not count for CWGC war grave status (ie UK munitions workers). He can be emailed from this Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Dodd Posted 25 April , 2003 Share Posted 25 April , 2003 I know there was definetly one nurse killed when the Leinster sank and she got a death plaque I think her name was Sophie Violet Barrett If anyone is interested look it up on the CWGC Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Dodd Posted 25 April , 2003 Share Posted 25 April , 2003 she got a death plaque Rather her family got a Death Plaque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Furnell Posted 25 April , 2003 Share Posted 25 April , 2003 I have heard the figure of around 600 women,dying during World War One while on active service. Later in the war,bombing raids behind the lines as far as Dunkirk,caused casualties amongst the nurse's and other support staff who served far from where the real action was happening. By late 1917 no one was safe in France and Flanders,near the coast or inland. All the best. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Birch Posted 25 April , 2003 Share Posted 25 April , 2003 There is a row of nurses buried at the huge Etaples CWGC Cemetery who were the victims of bombing raids on the base hospitals. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lesley Posted 25 April , 2003 Share Posted 25 April , 2003 Graham, I think the post you are referring to was the one about memorials to fallen women, rather than the actual numbers involved. cynthia you have started something now. A quick look on CWGC site gave me 9 Queen Alexandra nurses,12 WRAF'S, 4 WRN'S, 1 VAD and 1 civilian working for the women's emergengy canteens who won the croix de Guerre. A shame but you can't search under regiment - maybe worth an email to them for exact figures. It would make a lovely project researching their stories Cynthia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 25 April , 2003 Share Posted 25 April , 2003 My better half, Kieron, has just picked up a 1920s roll of honour of women who served/died in the war - she has been looking up some of the names this week. I will get her to post some details this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 25 April , 2003 Share Posted 25 April , 2003 Cynthia, I just switched across to the CWGC site and entered the name Cavell. Edith was not among the results, so I imagine any official figure could be quite wide of the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 25 April , 2003 Share Posted 25 April , 2003 Cynthia Two died in Belgium, one being Nellie Spindler... will email the picture of her gravestone.. was in Ljssenthoek Cemy on Wed... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 25 April , 2003 Share Posted 25 April , 2003 I copy below Jim Strawbridge's posting in an earlier thread which gives some idea of the numbers of women involved. Jim has a complete list of all female names who died if anyone is interested. Edith Cavell would not appear in the CWGC lists as she did not qualify for war grave status. "The main memorial to British and colonial women who died serving their country is the Five Sisters window in York Minster. This was unveiled on the 24th June 1925 by the then Duchess of York and dedicated by the Archbishop of York. Nearby is the memorial screen of the Chapel of St.Nicholas in the north transcept. Inside of these are 12 panels on which are inscribed the names of 1465 "women of the Empire" who died during or because of the after-effects of The Great War. As one would expect, the nursing services are well represented the main cause of death being Spanish 'flu. But also represented are munition workers, motor transport, the Land Army and other women's organisations that contributed to the war effort. Many of the munition workers died not from explosions but the inhalation of noxious chemicals. I have a list of the names and organisations and should anyone be researching I would be pleased to assist. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 26 April , 2003 Share Posted 26 April , 2003 Here's some interesting data I ran across last week. The source is Will R. Bird, MM from his book The Communication Trench: Anecdotes & Statistics from The Great War 1914-1918 (ISBN 1-896979-09-2): September 2nd, 1933 (page 91): "On the 3rd of August, 1918, there was a total of 4,943 British, 1,388 Colonial and 842 American nurses and other women working for the Royal Army Medical Corps. Other women in France were: Government Departments - 99 British Red Cross Society - 1,094 Queen Mary's Army Cross Society - 7,808 Y.M.C.A - 571 Church Army - 77 Soldiers' Christian Association - 54 Salvation Army - 150 Other Institutions - 204 Total Women in France (Other than Nursing Sisters) - 10,057" February 25, 1933 (page 23) "Forty-five members of the Nursing services lost their lives through enemy action during the war." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris basey Posted 26 April , 2003 Share Posted 26 April , 2003 The story of Susannah Hall of QMAAC is quite an interesting one and is probably best recounted verbatim from Noel Morris’s excellent tribute to the fallen of Reedham (Norfolk) “Susannah was born in Reedham in 1889 and like her two younger sisters volunteered for service in Queen Mary’s Army Auxiliary Corps. She served as a cook in D Company QMAAC in Romford and Folkestone before emabarking for France in September 1918. she survived the war but was a victim of the influenza epidemic and died, at the age of 30, on 23rd March 1919. she is buried at Terlincthun British Cemetery at Wimille, France. Quite why her name was not originally on the Reedham War Memorial is a mystery but in view of the presence of the names of her three brothers it cannot be for the want of nomination from the family. One likely explanation is discrimination on the grounds of gender, another the imposition of an arbitrary cut-off date by those responsible for approving the names. Susannah is also commemorated - along with other female casualties of the Great War – on the Roll of Honour situated in the north transept of York Minster. She earned the British War and Victory medals and a photograph of her memorial plaque was used to illustrate the cover of Harold Williamson’s book ‘Collecting and Researching the Campaign Medals of the Great War’. In 1995, at the direction of Reedham Parish Council, Susannah’s name was added to the Memorial in time for that year’s Armistice Day Service’. Chris Basey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 26 April , 2003 Share Posted 26 April , 2003 February 25, 1933 (page 23) "Forty-five members of the Nursing services lost their lives through enemy action during the war." I think this number must be just for Canadians. David Love's book indicates that 1,107 nursing matrons and sisters were serving overseas with the CAMC at Armistice. During the war, 38 were killed or died of sickness and 6 were wounded. Most casualties were from the sinking of a hospital ship and the aerial bombing at Etaples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 26 April , 2003 Share Posted 26 April , 2003 Hi Broznitsky: You're right, the number pertains to Canadian nurses. Sorry, I should have put the quoted sentence in context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 26 April , 2003 Share Posted 26 April , 2003 Mention of the victims of Zeppelin raids reminds me that on victim of a Zeppelin attack was Lena Ford who penned the lyrics to Ivor Novello's evergreen "Keep the home fires burning" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kieron Hoyle Posted 27 April , 2003 Share Posted 27 April , 2003 As Paul promised, these are the details I have compiled from Femina Patriae Defensor - Woman in the Service of her Country - Women’s Auxiliary of the Interallied Veterans Federation (Paris 1934): SUMMARY France – 192 Belgium – No figure Italy – 45 Poland – 138 Romania – 27 Yugoslavia – 248 UK & Commonwealth – 1,524 Total – 2,174 BREAKDOWN OF UK & COMMONWEALTH FEMALE DEATHS TFNS – 58 QARNS – 10 MERCANTILE MARINE – 48 WRNS – 25 SERBIAN RELIEF FUND – 6 FRIENDS WAR VICTIM RELIEF COMMITTEE – 2 WOMEN’S EMERGENCY CANTEEN – 1 YMCA – 4 INTELLIGENCE BRANCH, “BRITISH ARMY OF THE MARINE” – 1 WOMEN’S LAND ARMY – 12 WOMEN’S BRANCH FORAGE CORPS – 19 WOMEN’S LEGION – 10 WRAF – 107 QMAAC – 181 SOUTH AFRICAN MILITARY NS – 17 NEW ZEALAND ARMY NS – 18 MUNITIONS WORKERS – 219 QAIMNS – 144 VAD – 401 OMFC – 43 CAMC – 1 CASC – 1 NEWFOUNDLAND VAD – 1 AUSTRALIAN ARMY NS – 21 ARCS – 4 NYASALAND NS – 1 COLONIAL NURSING ASSOC – 4 BRITISH COMMITTEE OF FRENCH RED CROSS – 8 ORDER OF ST JOHN OF JERUSALEM – 6 “MEDICAL WOMEN” – 7 ENDELL ST HOSPITAL – 5 AUXILIARY HOSPITAL – 127 SCOTISH WOMEN’S HOSPITAL – 12 NS = NURSING SERVICE I have all the names of these (listed in the book) and some dates etc - if anyone wants to know more then post an enquiry here and I will look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 27 April , 2003 Share Posted 27 April , 2003 Kieron I dont suppose yr details could tell me if any of the munition workers that died were from explosions/fires in Kent, and if so, where, who etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kieron Hoyle Posted 28 April , 2003 Share Posted 28 April , 2003 Will have a look and get back to you later in the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia Posted 28 April , 2003 Author Share Posted 28 April , 2003 Thank you, everyone, for your answers! I did tell Scott to expect some excellent responses, and you have outdone yourselves. The statistics are sobering, aren't they? Appreciate everyone's responses and this is the sort of thing that makes me really proud to belong to a Forum of such riches! Cynthia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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