. Pte John Henry Wisdom. 2nd Dragoon Guards (Queen's Bays).

[Clarissabell]

As some of you know I am collecting information on the soldiers whose names are on our school war memorial (The High School, Dublin). 99% of the men were officers, so finding information on them is not so difficult. However, Private Wisdom is quite the reverse. I am especially keen to learn more about him BECAUSE he was not an officer. Here is all I have on him so far, not much I know.

8641. Pte John Henry Wisdom. 2nd Dragoon Guards (Queen's Bays). Died 26th January 1916, age 42. Son of the late Thomas Hume Wisdom, of 17 Greenmount Rd., Terenure. Enlisted from the Ecclesiastical Commission. No known grave. Name on the Loos Memorial - Pas de Calais.

Any ideas?

Regards, Clarissa.

[ralphjd]

I might (usually am) be wrong, but as he served in the Dragoon Guards haven't his service records survived in the guards museums repository ? I know the CGs, Irish Gds etc have. Ralph.

[spof]

Ralph

That is only the Foot Guards not the cavalry even if they have the word "Guards" in their title. It took me a while to get to grips with that one. The Household Cavalry are also in a separate series to other units so aren't on Ancestry but need to be seen at Kew.

Glen

[ralphjd]

Thanks for the clarification Glen, appreciated. Ralph.

[josquin]

Clarissa,

The 1911 English for England confirms that John Henry Wisdom was born in Dublin, records that he was living in London

at the time of the Census, and states that his age at last birthday was 37 (which agrees with his age in 1916).

Regards,

Trelawney

[spof]

The war diaries I have are spectacularly unhelpful

The Dismounted Cavalry Division was formed on 30th Dec 1915 and the 2DG along with 5DG and 11th Hussars formed the 1st Dismounted Battalion. Apart from a reference in the 11th Hussars diary mentioning work in trenches around Bethune they all say they were out of the line. Bethune is the right area to be on the Loos Memorial but it is hard to believe a grave would be lost if he died of illness.

The Brigade diary in WO 95/1108/1 or Division diary in WO 95/1097/4 may throw some light on the situation.

[HarryBrook]

His medal index card states that he first entered a theatre of war, France, on October 17 1915.

His probate record may be of interest.

Probate 1916

WISDOM John Henry of 3 Ravenscourt Mansions, Ravenscourt Park, Middlesex, private 2nd Dragoon Guards died 26 January near Bethune, France. Administration Dublin to Thomas Hume Wisdom gentleman. Effects £836 13s 8d in England. Sealed London 21 November.

[Clarissabell]

Thanks everyone for all that information... I have been busy tracking down that relative mention in the probate record. It was his brother, who has the same name as Private Wisdom's father.. (got a bit confusing there for a while). His mother died when he was just seven. Well, for the first time I was able to discover his date of birth, which was unknown til now... 10 nov 1873. In his 40s and still single, living away from his family, he seemed to lead a solitary life. But in terms of his experience during the war... it is still a bit hazy.

If he was living in England when the war broke-out, I suppose he would have been draughted into the army? Were Irish citizens living in England, conscripted into the army?

Thanks again to all you super sleuths! Fine work for a Saturday morning in February!

Cheers,

Clarissa.

[Clarissabell]

I have just found his name listed on a Houses of Parliament memorial. Can anyone shed any light on this? And he is listed as a trooper/private ?

[Clarissabell]

http://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/building/cultural-collections/memorials/in-the-collection/world-war-i/ww1-ecclesiastical-commissioners/

This explains what Private Wisdom was doing before the war.

'Title: Ecclesiastical Commissioners Staff MemorialDescription:This stone memorial in Millbank House lists the staff of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners (managers of the Church of Englands estates and revenues) killed in the First World War. The building was acquired by the House of Lords in 2005 from the Church Commissioners, successor to the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, and now forms part of the Parliamentary Estate.Location: Millbank House'

Becoming less and less hazy...

[Clarissabell]

The war diaries I have are spectacularly unhelpful

The Dismounted Cavalry Division was formed on 30th Dec 1915 and the 2DG along with 5DG and 11th Hussars formed the 1st Dismounted Battalion. Apart from a reference in the 11th Hussars diary mentioning work in trenches around Bethune they all say they were out of the line. Bethune is the right area to be on the Loos Memorial but it is hard to believe a grave would be lost if he died of illness.

The Brigade diary in WO 95/1108/1 or Division diary in WO 95/1097/4 may throw some light on the situation.

Thanks for these links. You are very good!

C.

Thanks for the clarification Glen, appreciated. Ralph.

And thanks to you both!

C.

His medal index card states that he first entered a theatre of war, France, on October 17 1915.

His probate record may be of interest.

Probate 1916

WISDOM John Henry of 3 Ravenscourt Mansions, Ravenscourt Park, Middlesex, private 2nd Dragoon Guards died 26 January near Bethune, France. Administration Dublin to Thomas Hume Wisdom gentleman. Effects £836 13s 8d in England. Sealed London 21 November.

Thanks Harry!

C.

[Clarissabell]

Clarissa,

The 1911 English for England confirms that John Henry Wisdom was born in Dublin, records that he was living in London

at the time of the Census, and states that his age at last birthday was 37 (which agrees with his age in 1916).

Regards,

Trelawney

Thanks Trelawney!

[Guest wisdom]

John Henry Wisdom, the younger son of Thomas Hume Wisdom. He was my great, great uncle (if I got the greats right).

[Guest wisdom]

If you're looking for more information, I can probably get it for you!

[Steven Broomfield]

Out of interest (and it might be a bit late), his rank, although given as "Trooper" on the memorial, should corerctly be "Private". Line Cavalry were not authorised to use the latter title until 1922, although Household cavalry had used trooper for some years. And, also out of interest, despite the regimental title, Dragoon Guards were not Household units, but just a slightly posher breed of Line Cavalry.

[Clarissabell]

Out of interest (and it might be a bit late), his rank, although given as "Trooper" on the memorial, should corerctly be "Private". Line Cavalry were not authorised to use the latter title until 1922, although Household cavalry had used trooper for some years. And, also out of interest, despite the regimental title, Dragoon Guards were not Household units, but just a slightly posher breed of Line Cavalry.

Thanks Steven - I am glad you sorted that out for us. There are so many pitfalls!

Regards C.

John Henry Wisdom, the younger son of Thomas Hume Wisdom. He was my great, great uncle (if I got the greats right).

Very pleased to 'meet' you Mr Wisdom. I will send you a private message if I may. Regards, Michelle

Edited 28 April , 2014 by Clarissabell