Visits to the sites

[ralphjd]

A group I have always travelled with over the past 10 years, all blokes, have decided this year to hire a coach and take their respective wives along, some like mine never been to Ypres at all. I know coach drivers are limited to the amount of driving they do, so where one gets to is anybodies guess. What opinions do the pals have on this idea of females tagging along. I`think some of the ladies suspect the trips over the years are nothing but boozy stay up late lads dos

[trenchtrotter]

In a word "no" unless they have an interest. The blokes will feel frustrated by having to re visit the main sites and comprising visits to shops etc. don't try and force your interests on others.

If u want a mixed visit go to Paris / Brussels etc and don't do the battlefields.

TT

[SteveMarsdin]

Whilst I agree with the basis of Tim's comments, my wife likes shopping in Verdun and my mother-in-law likes the wool factory shop in Bar-le-Duc, so it can sometimes work !!!

[chrissparrow]

If you can't cope with taking ladies you should not be going. The thing to remember is to stand at a grave or site of a trench and ask the company what the soldiers mothers would be thinking. They deserve the same emotional heart-wrench that men get from their feelings in these places. Give the ladies a chance and don't label them as shoppers. From years of taking them I can assure you that there are those who will also be last in the bar and first to breakfast!

Chris

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

... What opinions do the pals have on this idea of females tagging along. ...

If the girls are at least passably interested in the war / can manage however many days without "having" to be in a clothes shop / can be trusted not to bitch about each other - have hissy-fits and tantrums / will not, under any circumstances, complain about "not another cemetery" or its raining ............................... GET REAL - who are you trying to kid !!!!

No, go on, do it. Ignore all advice to the contrary; take disinterested women on a battlefield tour - what could possibly go wrong ?!

Tom

[Seadog]

What an amazing statement in post 2 it was a great pleasure to have the ladies on board to tours of Flanders, the Somme and Normandy. If the purpose of the trips are made quite clear at the outset then what problems can there be for I have certainly not experienced any whatsoever. Perhaps we should remind ourselves that women have made a great contribution to our understanding of WW1 for instance Rose Coombs and Lyn Macdonald not to mention those who are members of this forum.

Norman

PS Just read the garbage above, perhaps this thread should be locked to avoid giving offence to the female members

[keithmroberts]

Stereotypes, gender based or otherwise are normally just foolish, and to make assumptions about attitudes is pointless and generally quite offensive. I know men (including my soldier son) who would be bored stiff by a battlefield tour, and women, mostly through this forum and WFA meetings who are fascinated to visit and learn.

For those who don't understand, women are people, just like men, sometimes more so, and broad assumptions are as foolish as they are often offensive.

My ex would be bored stiff by a battlefield tour, but enjoyed an unplanned visit to a civil war fort in the USA the other year. Individuals are old enough to make choices. Discuss the plans, consider options, and respect wishes. if partners/wives/ girlfriends don't fancy a particular expedition they will almost certainly be mature enough to tell you so. Trust them, and don't stereotype anyone.

Here endeth my harangue

Keith

[kenneth505]

I'm frankly amazed that the question would be posed along gender lines. Isn't the participation on this forum proof enough that there is no telling who is going to be a Pal and who would rather watch paint dry than re-explore the Great War (rhyme unintentional). Bring anyone with the right positive attitude for the endeavor. Who knows there may be new historians in the group who find a new passion. For anyone not sure but wanting to try have a plan B ready for them for day 2 on.

[trenchtrotter]

Ok I don't bite usually but as the self righteous soles on this post have chosen to put words and values into my mouth and mind I am not saying women have no interest but read intelligently what I am saying.... If people male or female don't share the interest passion etc then the interest levels will not be tha same and my comments apply. If they do and fully share go ahead but my caveats apply.

Who said I was implying Paris and Brussels wee for shopping as against a cultural trip????

If I asked my wife to choose battlefields v Paris have a guess. She has a passing interest and understands suffering and she is a mother but guess what!

So am I over reacting ? Same judgemental replies from some very self opinionated "pals" who can't interpret a reply.

Why ask the question in the first place?

I do despair sometimes especially some of the recent posts and replies

A very peed off TT aka MCP apparently (male chavenistic p)

Ok I don't bite usually but as the self righteous soles on this post have chosen to put words and values into my mouth and mind I am not saying women have no interest but read intelligently what I am saying.... If people male or female don't share the interest passion etc then the interest levels will not be tha same and my comments apply. If they do and fully share go ahead but my caveats apply.

Who said I was implying Paris and Brussels wee for shopping as against a cultural trip????

If I asked my wife to choose battlefields v Paris have a guess. She has a passing interest and understands suffering and she is a mother but guess what!

So am I over reacting ? Same judgemental replies from some very self opinionated "pals" who can't interpret a reply.

Why ask the question in the first place?

I do despair sometimes especially some of the recent posts and replies

A very peed off TT aka MCP apparently (male chavenistic p)

[trenchtrotter]

One last bite Norman who do you think you are to judge and self interpret? .....garbage! likewise !!

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

... Here endeth my harangue ...

Harangue away to your heart's content - Back in the days when I used to work as a guide I had more than my fill of parties including wives or significant others who had no one but themselves to blame that they had insisted on being on a tour the subject of which they had no interest in at all - and who then set about making the lives of all around them as miserable as possible.

If a "partner" with no previous interest in or knowledge of the subject starts to insist on going - especially when there is a suspicion that, as the OP says, "I`think some of the ladies suspect the trips over the years are nothing but boozy stay up late lads dos", then expect a rough ride.

I suspect that the OP knew their own answer to the question before they posted though.

Tom

Edit - sorry, I should make this perfectly clear - In every single instance the disinterested, disruptive, and often ill-tempered "other half" was a woman - every single case.

Edited 5 February , 2014 by Tom Tulloch-Marshall

[ralphjd]

Tom. Got it in one but I NEVER expected such a response to my question. To begin at the beginning, I answered our phone last Monday and the caller (whom we have both known for years), the organiser of all the trips asked to speak to my wife, he told her of the coach, wives going etc and the cost per person, Irene put down the phone and told me of the next trip and the dates and would I renew my passport and like to go. I am not a fan of coaches, the last time we had a coach I took my bike and out of 31 cemeteries visited over four days I did 29 on my bike whilst based at the Arianne. Irene would like to go as she has never visited any CWGC sites abroad. Not aware of the views re visits to Tyne Cot, Pop, Essex Farm etc etc etc of the other spouses, but I have my doubts based on evenings out in the past that the interest is there. Ralph.

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

... but I have my doubts based on evenings out in the past that the interest is there. ...

Ralph - more often than not the bottom line is that a coach cannot be in two places at once, - either its a battlefields trip, or its a shopping / general sightseeing trip, or a going to Disneyland trip - it cannot be all things to all people. If things go the way which I have so often witnessed in the past, then your next problem will be that the people who are there for the battlefields are going to get mightily peed-off about the trip being diverted to the chocolate shop and the three hour café lunch.

But you already know this, don't you.

Tom

[ralphjd]

Tom. Same wavelength again but I feel a bit guilty in not going and showing Irene all the sites I have seen, leaving her at home having been with the group on trips every year for 10 years bar 2006 (2nd WW Normandy sites - no interest) and last year (passport expired)Ralph.

[Ghazala]

My interest in the Great War started when Rose Combes invited me to accompany her on a tour of the Mons battlefield back in the early 80s. On the coach were many veterans of that war. Rose then asked me to attend a dinner in Ypres and sat me next to Lyn Mcdonald. I have never forgotten those two wonderful ladies. Today I welcome ladies on my annual tours of The Somme. We men would be in a sorry state without them.

[Hedley Malloch]

I`think some of the ladies suspect the trips over the years are nothing but boozy stay up late lads dos

I wonder why on earth they could possibly think that. Strong drink consumed by men on a group tour to the Western Front? Heaven forbid.

I think we have to realise that some people - not all women - are not at all interested in visiting the 5th CWGC cemetery in the same day, or in seeing yet another meaningless pile of scrap iron in the back-room of some café posing as a 'battlefield museum'. Stay somewhere which caters for all interests. Albert and Ypres have limitations in this respect. Paris and Brussels are not exactly close to hand; Paris in particular is expensive to reach.

Lille on the other hand is great. Centrally placed for both the Somme and Ypres, good shopping and some excellent museums and art galleries.

[Ghazala]

"I`think some of the ladies suspect the trips over the years are nothing but boozy stay up late lads dos"]

An integral part of battlefield touring is that we stay up late in the bar quaffing large amounts of the local ale and discussing what we have seen and found that day. Like Tom I have witnessed marital strife because of this. My wife realised this long ago and now choses not to travel, but in the knowledge that she would always be very welcome if she changed her mind.. Bless her..

[ralphjd]

One of the things that bothers me Hedley is the fact that the hotel is the Arianne Ypres, don't get me wrong I love the place, but Ypres is not exactly Market Street Manchester on a busy day. Once round and your done.

[Chris_Baker]

If you are already booked into Ypres, could you arrange, for example, a ladies local minibus day out to Bruges?

[BIFFO]

have just seen this post what a load of tosh,as Alan says stereotypes are silly types many many women are more than interested in ww1 for in example take our sue light now shes a woman if you want to know anything re nurses or medical none better, when we can my wife and I like nothing more than tramping around a muddy field,if you just want to go on a booze tour with a bit of war thrown in,why not go to Dublin for the weekend get as much drink down your neck then go pick a fight

I1ll get me coat

Biff

[paul@bolton]

An integral part of battlefield touring is that we stay up late in the bar quaffing large amounts of the local ale and discussing what we have seen and found that day. Like Tom I have witnessed marital strife because of this. My wife realised this long ago and now choses not to travel, but in the knowledge that she would always be very welcome if she changed her mind.. Bless her..

I must be very lucky. My wife and daughters all thoroughly enjoy both the late night quaffing AND the visits to the battlefields and cemeteries. Okay, sometimes they enjoy the evenings a bit too much but then there are always the comfy benches provided by the CWGC for a bit of quiet contemplation....

Paul

[trenchtrotter]

Oh Lordy May...help me!!!!!!!!

It simply comes down to this.......

If man or woman has interests and shares a love of the same activities great, it will work and be great. If they dont and have only a passing interest (irrespective of gender) it will lead to comprmises having to be made which could cause friction. If part of the group has no interest (male or female) they will get bored, want different things and cause problems potentially.

Drinking late at night by any sex could lead to hangovers and late starts plus staying in recovery. This too could cause strife.

No one has said some women are not very interested, no one has said some dont enjoy field walking but as I see mainly men on the batlefields and at militaria fairs I make a statement that it mainly interests men ( I say again mainly). Why we keep having to name female examles to try and correct a mis-interpreted assumption that all woman are not interested I dont get!!!!!

My final word before I leave this thread to all but to the starter........do whatever you and your group want to do, you know best and live with any consequences good or bad!!!!!

Ralph enjoy your trip if it happens and I hope all have agreat time and it works for your group dynamics.

TT

[Ghazala]

For those who don't understand, women are people, just like men.

Keith

My wife has just read your post Keith and has announced to all the family that she loves you!

[paul@bolton]

Personally, I don't disagree with anything that TT said in post 2.

I think it's just a case - whether you are taking men or women for the first time - of making sure that everybody understands in advance what the trip entails. And definitely what is doesn't include.

For example, late night drinking is allowed. Late starts the following morning and moaning about hangovers isn't.

Paul

[ralphjd]

Thanks TT says it all. Paul - correct. Think subject closed, didn't think the post would cause so much controversy