Anneca Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 This evening on BBC2 at 21.00hrs "Royal Cousins at War" is the first of a two-part series which looks at the role played by the three monarchs and their relationships with each other at the outbreak of war, arguing that it is far greater than historians have traditionally believed. Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 Loathe the melodramatic 'plugging trailer' but will probably watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anneca Posted 5 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2014 I had the same opinion about the trailer although I think it could be an interesting watch - could be proved wrong though. Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 monarchs and their relationships with each other at the outbreak of war, arguing that it is far greater than historians have traditionally believed. Anne Anne, Obviously, a very ' incestuous ' bunch, here are 9 Crown Heads photographed at Windsor on May 20th, 1910. Let's see who can name them all ? Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anneca Posted 5 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2014 Now that's a conundrum LF! Can guess at some but not all. From left to right: King Haakon, or Hakon of Norway, King Ferdinand I of Bulgaria, King???????, King Wilheim II Germany, King George I Greece, King Albert I or II Belgium, King??????, King George V, King Frederick ? of Denmark. If only Victoria had lived longer and whipped them all into shape the Great War probably wouldn't have happened. Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 5 February , 2014 Admin Share Posted 5 February , 2014 Manoel of Portugal between the Bulgarian monarch and the Kaiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 Front left; Alfonso (XIII - I cheated and looked that bit up) of Spain. By process of illumination. Roger Ed: A slightly worrying thought: I can remember King Haakon's death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 Now that's a conundrum LF! Can guess at some but not all. From left to right: King Haakon, or Hakon of Norway, King Ferdinand I of Bulgaria, King???????, King Wilheim II Germany, King George I Greece, King Albert I or II Belgium, King??????, King George V, King Frederick ? of Denmark. If only Victoria had lived longer and whipped them all into shape the Great War probably wouldn't have happened. Anne King Haakon VII of Norway, King Ferdinand of Bulgaria, King Manuel II of Portugal, Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany, King George I of Greece, King Albert I of Belgium. seated - King Alfonso XIII of Spain, King George V, and King Frederick VIII of Denmark. And within a few short years of having their photograph taken together, some were trying to destroy each others armies. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 A slightly worrying thought: I can remember King Haakon's death! Roger, I know the feeling, September 1957, I had just taken my 11+ exam ! Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anneca Posted 6 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2014 Roger, I know the feeling, September 1957, I had just taken my 11+ exam ! Regards, LF LF - You must have been sitting in the seat behind me that September (so how come you had a better history teacher than me?) Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 Amusing to see the variety of Admiral/Field Marshal uniforms & decorations on display. I wonder if they ever felt embarrassed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 More bling than a TOWIE crew! I did enjoy the book of the three emperors/cousins at war so I will watch it on the iPlayer with interest. It is quite a chunky book so I wonder how much depth it goes into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 I haven't read the book, but I thought the programme was very good; there was a lot of film footage I hadn't seen before. The idea that Wilhelm was the cousin left out of the jolly Danish summer holidays, with the Danish Alexandra (wife of the Prince of Wales, later Edward VII) and her sister Dagmar (Empress of Russia, married to Alexander III) both fiercely anti-Prussian because of the humiliation of Denmark by Prussia, was new to me. But probably not to others here. Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 I haven't read the book, but I thought the programme was very good; there was a lot of film footage I hadn't seen before. The idea that Wilhelm was the cousin left out of the jolly Danish summer holidays, with the Danish Alexandra (wife of the Prince of Wales, later Edward VII) and her sister Dagmar (Empress of Russia, married to Alexander III) both fiercely anti-Prussian because of the humiliation of Denmark by Prussia, was new to me. But probably not to others here. Liz Liz, Sounds like a script from a European Soap Opera ( which it probably was ). Also, noticed the Bulgarian and the Belgian wore their sash over their right shoulder, everyone else is wearing their's over their left shoulder ? Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 Watched the first dose of this up to the point where we were informed that the Kaiser was born “bottom first" which imprinted such a horrific image in my mind that I did not see the rest, even reading this brings it all back! Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 Have you never heard of such a thing before, then, Norman? I heard all the sad medical stuff about the Kaiser in that other programme a few months ago about him so was not shocked by that. If only Vicky had known how to treat him... I'm in a fair way to being convinced that personalities really were at the root of the war! Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 I watched the second episode this evening. What an excellent programme. If you are not interested in WW1 it is still worth watching just as a guide to the effects on children of family dynamics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 Yes, this was an extraordinary programme. I was not fully aware of the Kaiser's personality disorders. Obviously the personalities of the leaders had a massive impact on all matters associated with the Great War. I need to watch this programme again to try to take it all in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_East Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 I think it was acknowledged before that the Great War was a struggle between the major royal families of Europe in the race for dominance and control of Europa. The Kaiser's withered hand is well know in history but I think the disability would have been well and disguised from his subjects.He lacked the restraint in his assessment of the European political stage that might have been effective from advice from a senior statesman. Anti British to the end and in exile in Holland,he conveyed congratulations to Hitler on his victories in Western Europe.Hitler in turn paid homage to the Kaiser's memory by a German guard of honour as his body lay in state on his death in 1941. Overall,the programme relates a good account of the background on the rise of Bismark's Germany and the Kaiser's attempt to create a leading power in Europe....well worth watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 The Kaiser sought to disguise his shortened arm. Photographs of him show, variously, his hand in his pocket, on top of his sword, and often, carrying a pair of gloves, so as to give the illusion of an arm of equal length. I thing care is needed in assuming that any royal rivalries played a major part in the outbreak of war. It is true that the monarchs various were able to intercede on behalf or their respective governments when things got tense, but the complexity of the situation in middle Europe, and the ambitions of the Kaiser, backed by the German General Staff, and the dismissal of Bismark, a master of playing the diplomatic game, amongst other things, far outweighed any royal fallouts. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 Well yes, I think we all realise that, but the programmes bring out very vividly aspects of his family background and relations with other European royalty that caused or greatly exacerbated the Kaiser's ambition and unstable personality. And who dismissed Bismarck? Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anneca Posted 7 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2014 I didn't know what to expect with this programme but have been pleasantly surprised. As LF has already said, why did the Bulgarians and Belgians wear their sashes over different shoulders from the others? Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 I had thought that the book covered Edward VII roll as a statesman very well and how he developed as being quite talented in this area while he was king in waiting so to speak. That he was a philanderer was covered in the book and programme but I thought that his statesmanship might be covered in the same detail in the programme. However, that might emerge in the second part. I think in general, he is more remembered as a philanderer than a statesman. I thought the royal photographs of Princess Alexandra and the others I an informal attitude were very good. I think she became quite an accomplished photographer. I saw a second hand book recently at Barter Books about her photography and almost bought it...still available on amazon tho' http://www.amazon.co.uk/Developing-Picture-Queen-Alexandra-Photography/dp/1902163796 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 Well yes, I think we all realise that, but the programmes bring out very vividly aspects of his family background and relations with other European royalty that caused or greatly exacerbated the Kaiser's ambition and unstable personality. And who dismissed Bismarck? Liz Liz , the Kaiser dismissed Bismarck, in March 1890. The episode, and its potential consequences, was, rather presciently, recorded in the Punch magazine in a cartoon called the "Dropping the Pilot" which shows the German Chancellor leaving the ship of state as the Kaiser looks on. The same cartoon was reproduced by Punch in 1915 on the anniversary of Bismarck's centenary. It was entitled "The Ghost Pilot", this time showing the ghost of the Iron Chancellor climbing back aboard, proclaiming "I wonder if he would drop me now?" Punch wasn't far wrong. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le_Treport Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 Fascinating programme. However, I'm having to draw and re-draw a very large and complicated family tree on my lounge wall to keep track of the multiple inter-connections between them all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now