The advent of Mustard Gas at Ypres, 12-13 July 1917

[Simon Jones]

Bob

Yes that sounds entirely plausible.

Simon

[Simon Jones]

Graham

I've not encountered that, I'll take a look at the medical studies before attempting to speculate.

Simon

[Guest]

Many thanks for posting Simon, very interesting. I found this in the British Newspaper Archives and thought it might be of interest?

West London Observer - Friday 22 October 1954

" In the last year alone, 54 new cases were admitted to St. Dunstan's benefits, including 25 men from the late war-many of them have been in hospital for years receiving treatment-and more recent casualties from Korea, Malaya, and East Africa (in the campaign against Mau Mau terrorists. A further 29 were casualties from the Great War, who had gone blind gradually over the years from the delayed effects of mustard gas poisoning. "

Mike

[Guest]

Another article from the BNA

Dover Express - Friday 04 March 1921

Tragic occurrence at St. Margaret's

Sudden death of resident

On Tuesday evening a tragic occurrence took place in the High Street of St. Margarets, a well known inhabitant, Mr Thomas Fossett, who seemed to be in good health, after leaving a fellow workman, with whom he was talking, falling down and dying almost at once. A passing motor only just managed to avoid the deceased as he fell. The inquest was held at the Parish Hall, St. Margaret's on Wednesdayafternoon, by the East Kent Coroner, Mr Rutley Mowll. Florence Edith Fossett identified the body as that of her husband, Thomas Fossett, a general labourer, aged 45. She last saw him alive on Tuesday evening at about 6.10 p.m. when he left home to go to Deal on the bus to do some shopping. He had seemed quite well. He had an omelet and two thin pieces of bread and butter for his tea. Soon afterwards her little girl came and told her of the occurrence. In reply to a question put by the Coroner, witness said that he had been lately complaining of pains in the stomach. During the war he served in various batteries of the RGA in France and he was badly gassed in the latter part of the war. He was in several hospitals and convalescent camps being treated for mustard gas poisoning. He was finally demobilised from the Army in July 1919, and he complained of the pains in the stomach during the following Autumn, and they were repeated this Autumn. During the past week he had complained again. He was quite careful as regards his diet.Albert Victor Phillips, a general labourer, resident at Well Lane, St. Margaret's, said that he saw deceased at about 6.20 on Tuesday evening, when he was returning from the forge. He walked from the " Red Lion " to Mr Madge's shop with him and he seemed quite well, talking about the state of the weather and saying " Good night " when he left him. A few minutes afterwards he saw someone lying in the road about fifteen yards further on, and on going up to the person found him him to be Fossett, the man with whom he had just been walking. He was then breathing heavily. John Finnis, a motor driver, living at No. 3 Florinda Cottages, gave evidence to the effect that on Tuesday evening, between 6.20 and 6.30, he was driving along the High St., from Martin Mill Station, when his head lights showed him a man standing against the wall just past the butcher's shop, with his head on his arms, which were against the wall. Within a second he fell down backwards nearly under the car. He swerved his car past him, just missing his head. He stopped and looked at the man, but, seeing plenty of assistance, drove on with his fare. In reply to a question by Dr. Molesworth, the witness said that deceased looked very pale. Charlotte Atkins, district nurse for St. Margaret's said that as she was passing along the High Street, about 6.25 p.m., she saw a man lying on the ground with Mr Phillips, one of the previous witnesses, supporting his head. She felt the man's pulse, which was beating very feebly. Dr Theodore Molesworth, M.B., F.R.C.S., said that the deceased had consulted him on February 2nd complaining of pain in the stomach and indigestion. He gave him some medicine with instructions to re-visit him if he did not improve, but did not see him again until he went to attend him and found him dead, having been removed to a house near the scene of his death on Tuesday evening. At the request of the Coroner he had carried out a post mortem examination that day, as a result of which two small gastric ulcers were found at the top of the stomach. There were no signs of hemorrhage. He came to the conclusion that the ulcers were of recent formation. He was of the opinion that death was due to syncope arising from acute indigestion. He understood from Mrs Fossett that deceased had, during his recent stomach pains, been in the habit of vomiting after meals, which might be due to mustard gas poisoning, which he had received during the war and to which cause the ulcers were probably due, but he said that this was not an accepted sequence. Mrs Fossett, recalled, said that her husband had been in the habit of vomiting during the recent attacks of pain, and had complained of the taste of the gas, but not during the previous attacks. Papers in her possession showed that he was, before being gassed, of "A" medical category. The Coroner said that there was no reason to doubt the medical evidence they had heard, and the jury returned the verdict that death was due to syncope, arising from acute indigestion. After the inquest Mr Rutley Mowll handed 10s. to Mr J B Madge and suggested that a fund should be raised in aid of the widow and children; and Mr Madge will be ready to receive other donations.

Mike

[g6yfb]

It would appear from Mikes article #29 that inflamation of the stomach may have been a known "after effect" in some cases, thanks for the information, I guess my grandfather was one of the lucky ones who lived to a good old age.

Thanks for the article and the information

Regards

Graham

[Marilyne]

Simon,

Just only had time to read it... well done, a thoroughly researched paper.

Thanks for sharing.

MM.

[Simon Jones]

Mike, interesting and sad cases.

Marilyne, thank you.

regards

Simon

[marvill]

Hello Simon, what an interesting and informative article which has helped me also to understand more about the gases, and when used ect as I have been trying to find out what caused my grandads problems. From the information ( very little really ) I know as I cannot find any records apart from his medal card and other information with regards him that has been offered on here. My mum says he served at Ypres amongst other places was shot sometime in the arm, we have a picture of him in hospital blues which I posted in the gallery a while back , but I assume that was before he was gased ( my mum always says it was mustard ). He survived the war but suffered with a bad chest and legs that where so blistered at times that my mum remembers that from when she was little right up untill he passed away in 1958 age 63 ( ? ) his legs having to be dressed at the hospital and at home by herself because of the blisters and ulcers that would flare up. She says he had to wear ' special socks ' from the hospital and he suffered terrible with his legs. I wondered if you had come across any other soldiers with simalar problems with their legs caused by any gas . I was informed on here that he did rejoin again after the war untill 1931. He was in the 1st and 2nd battalion Notts and Derby Sherwood Foresters and landed in France 1914. His name was William Marvill and all other records i.e pension service ect I can find none.

Regards Yvonne

[CaroleHope]

Hi Simon,

Interesting article. I researched my friend's grandfather's war service. He was gassed twice and died in 1920. His death certificate says mustard gas poisoning, yet his widow was denied a war pension.

Carole

[Simon Jones]

Yvonne, thank you, I've not studied the long-term effects and the sources that I have used were written in the 1920s. It certainly sounds as if the ulcers that your grandfather suffered were the results of mustard gas.

Carole, thank you. Very unfair.

regards

Simon

[Standon Markie]

My grandfather, Edward Moram, Royal Garrison Artillery, died in 1930, in similar circumstances to the case above, twelve years after discharge. 

He was a casualty of gas on the Somme in 1916, and was sent to Bury in Lancashire for a short period of convalescence, and then, passed fit by a medical board, he was sent back to the Western Front. Discharged in November 1918 , under the category 'A1' but owing to his poor health he was never able to resume work.

But, of course, he, too, was denied a war pension.

[Terry_Reeves]

You need to be very careful about attributing the effects of gas of any sort to long-term health problems.  The problem is proving it. I note in post 35 that there is an assumption that the ulcers suffered by the casualty "were the result of mustard gas." There is not a jot of evidence to support this assertion and stomach ulcers could be caused by a host of other things.  There were a lot of non-war related things  can be attributed to post- war ill health, how about smoking or conditions in the work place or general atmospheric conditions caused by industrial pollution?

 

 

TR

 

 

 

 

Edited 27 September , 2019 by Terry_Reeves

[phil andrade]

2 hours ago, Terry_Reeves said:

You need to be very careful about attributing the effects of gas of any sort to long-term health problems

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Forgive my pedantry, Terry, but shouldn’t that be the other way round : i.e. attributing long term health problems to the effects of gas ?

 

You might, I suppose, argue that soldiers who were already susceptible to pulmonary health problems - and there must have been many such in that era of widespread TB - would have been especially vulnerable to the effects of gas....that would validate your point.

 

A bit picky of me, sorry....but there might be scope for discussion here.

 

Phil

[Terry_Reeves]

Phil

 

You are quite right. The problem lies with gathering data to support claims. I posted this on 2017 which shows the problem of trying to identify gas casualties.

 

 

Just as an aside, my paternal grandfather was gassed (phosgene) in 1916. I know when, where  and the circumstances of the gassing. He was hospitalised and then returned to to active service. He retired 12 months early from Cadbury's  because of lung problems and his retirement, which was announced in the works magazine, mentioned that his health problems stemmed from being gassed. However there is no medical evidence to support and he was a lifelong smoker, so you can see where difficulties arise. He actually died of prostate cancer in 1964.  

 

TR

Edited 28 September , 2019 by Terry_Reeves

[phil andrade]

Terry,

 

If memory serves me , my copy of the official Medical Statistics reveals that Phosgene was by far the most lethal of the gasses used in the Great War, with a fatality rate for its victims    being ten times higher than that from Mustard Gas. If I’m exaggerating , it’s not by much. The concomitant being that the number of gas casualties from Phosgene was much smaller. You’re existence testifies to your GFs good luck.....if luck can be ascribed to such a horrible experience .

 

Phil

Edited 28 September , 2019 by phil andrade