Conscription. Why did some not fight?

[Foster88]

Hi all, watching 'Britains Great War' tonight with Jermey Paxman has got me thinking.

I've recently been researching my family's role in the Great War and have bee researching my four great-grandfathers one of whom I've recently discovered fought with the Lancahire fusileers and the MGC and thankfully survived the war otherwise I wouldn't be here.

With this in mind it got me thinking why my other three great-grandfathers didn't fight. The ages of the ones who didnt fight in 1914 were 25, 20 and 15, even the youngest would have been at age by 1917 so I'm wondering if anyone can shine some light on this?

Thanks in advance

Dan

[ss002d6252]

The ages of the ones who didnt fight in 1914 were 25, 20 and 15, even the youngest would have been at age by 1917 so I'm wondering if anyone can shine some light on this?

Although conscription was introduced during early 1916 there were many reasons why a man wouldn't be in the army - illness, disability or even due to his occupation. Many men served but stayed within the UK so there are no apparent records that they actually served even though they actually did.

Craig

[Foster88]

I've just realised that this forum post, perhaps, may have been more suitable in another category.

[Coldstreamer]

Although conscription was introduced during early 1916 there were many reasons why a man wouldn't be in the army -

Craig

such as the navy

I watched the program - some interesting reasons why not to enlist

[WilliamRev]

I was investigating what my four great uncles did in WW1 - relatives had told me that, unlike my two grandfathers, none of the four g-uncles had been in the army.

Well......... after a lot of investigating I have found that all four WERE in the army - two were sappers in the Royal Engineers, one a corporal in the Royal Army Medical Corps, and one a shoe-smith in the Veterinary Corps, attached to the Canadian Infantry.

Further to this an aunt (whom I hadn't spoken to about this before) told me that one of the sappers, my Great Uncle William, had died in the war, and was never spoken of. I have discovered that in fact he survived the war and emigrated to the USA, and died in 1970.

Moral (at least in my case): don't assume that "family-lore" is correct when it comes to WW1.

William

[Foster88]

William, I haven't actually 'bothered' to look excuse the choice of word because I've asked my grandparents what their fathers did and none of them can tell me other than they didn't fight.

I have discovered that one of my great grandfathers fathers was deputy mayor of Wigan at the time and so I'm assuming, although perhaps I shouldn't that he may have 'pulled a few strings' to keep him out of the war.

The others are a mystery, maybe I should dig a little further.

Dan

[rickpreston@nasuwt.net]

one reason might be medical. One of my grandads did not fight because he had bad eyesight. Medically unfit.

[stevej60]

Hi Dan,apart from a couple of reasons already mentioned they could have been in occupations vital to the war effort,a look at the 1911 cencus for their occupations may be worth looking

at.medical reasons as mentioned are a big reason I have two relatives discharged on those grounds and even if you have been told otherwise if you have access check for army records

regards Steve.

[johnboy]

Can you post their names and where they were from?

[Tom Morgan]

Another reason was that a man might decide he wasn't going to go, and that was that. If you wanted to, and if your circumstances were just right, you could avoid military service without breaking any rules. One of my great uncles decided not to volunteer in the early years of the war, as was his right, and when conscription came in, requiring all fit men of the correct ages to be available for compulsory military service, with young (18 years) unmarried men going first, he was 26. This seemed like a good time to get married, putting himself even further back in the queue. He was simply never called up.

Tom

[Foster88]

Hi all, thanks for your replies.

The 1911 census lists them as 'scholars' and still in education, apart from the eldest of my great grandfathers who I can't seem to find.

Their names Johnboy were as follows:

Joseph Lowe B. 1896

Thomas Moss B. 1885

Both were born in and lived in Wigan all their lives. If anything shows up please let me know, I'd be interested to see if either of them fought.

Dan

[jay dubaya]

There are many reasons why a man may enlist under an alias Dan and never assume - a local vicar here in Pembrokeshire 'pulled strings' to have his 17 year old son commissioned into the Welsh Rgt in 1914

Jon

[Foster88]

Tom,

That's interesting to know and could possibly be the reason why they didn't go.

Although I know that neither of them didn't have children at the time, surprisingly to me there seems to be a long list of reasons why someone didn't/couldn't serve. By that I mean on the front line as it were.

Dan

[spof]

This is a good summary of conscription and how it worked http://www.1914-1918.net/msa1916.html

To claim an exemption he would have had to appear before a local Military Tribunal. Many of these were reported in local papers (without names but you could probably work it out if you know age and occupation). It could also be taken to the Central Military Tribunal. Download the minute books from the Central Military Tribunal from the newly digitised records and see if they are named there but this is a "last resort" option

[Ghazala]

I hope they were not handed white feathers by those awful women that used to patrol the streets .

[IRC Kevin]

There are a myriad of reasons why men from the Wigan area (and many other places) did not serve, though many tried to enlist. The average height in Wigan was lower than in many more prosperous areas and large numbers of men failed to even make the Bantam battalions when they formed. (I did see some statistics on this a couple of years ago, but can't remember where I'd read it- possibly in the 'Archive Centre' in Wigan.) Many were held back to work in the pits and later in the war there must have been considerable shortages of miners, as some local men were actually posted back from the front to return to their pre-war work in the mines. (At least one killed in an accident in a mine and appears on CWWG). Many local men who had worked in the mills suffered from deafness, which also led to discharge or failed enlistment and TB and pulmonary disorders were also rife in Wigan, particularly around Scholes. A surprisingly common reason for rejection was flat feet or bunions.

[Foster88]

How interesting! Who would have thought that flat feet and being vertically challenged was a reason not to fight.

I suppose in this instance I'm never really going to know, my great grandfathers lives in Wigan at the time were quite different, one lived in a small slum terraced house in Ince and the second lived in a large middle class detached house in Swinley so who knows.

I've had a look at MIC records to see any mention of them but nothing seems to match on the off chance they could have gone.

[johnboy]

If you post their names you may get help.

Start a new Post in the Soldiers Forum.

As much info as possible.

[Foster88]

Joseph Lowe B. 1896

Thomas Moss B. 1884/85

[researchingreg]

Even if you were'nt conscripted and joined the Army of your own volition,if you had special skills you could be discharged/released from the Army to follow your civilian occupation if it was considered to be essential to the War Effort. This happened to two of my uncles. One joined the RAMC TF in 1913 for 4 years service and was a skilled scientific instrument maker. He was released to follow his civilian occupation and was stiil in uniform but not RAMC uniform but one carrying the badge 'on war service' until he was discharged from the Army in 1917 (after his 4 years were up) on the condition he carried on work as a scientific instrument maker during hostilities. The other uncle who was a motor mechanic and fitter joined the ASC in 1916 when he was 18 was released after 275 days service was transferred to the Army Reserve on 24 May 1917.The reason I think was to work on a civilian tractor fleet run by the Ministry of Agriculture under the direction of my grandfather (his father)

[IRC Kevin]

How interesting! Who would have thought that flat feet and being vertically challenged was a reason not to fight.

I suppose in this instance I'm never really going to know, my great grandfathers lives in Wigan at the time were quite different, one lived in a small slum terraced house in Ince and the second lived in a large middle class detached house in Swinley so who knows.

I've had a look at MIC records to see any mention of them but nothing seems to match on the off chance they could have gone.

Ince wasn't too bad around that time and Swinley was amongst the best housing in Wigan. Feet were very important as the men marched everywhere and 10 -15 miles was routine. Teeth were equally important and a man had to be capable of living off the notorious 'biscuit' from 'iron rations' (though having tried one of these once, a sledgehammer would have been a good idea!). Height was important as infantrymen were beasts of burden on a daily basis and a man also needed to be tall enough to be able to use his rifle from the fire-step of a trench. Men below the minimum height standard did manage to creep in occasionally, but every example I've found in the two battalions I've researched in depth, these men have been found to struggle as a front-line infantryman and have been posted out to less strenuous duties.

Lots of men did enlist, bit were never posted overseas for all sorts of reasons- sometimes just the luck of the draw. Wigan in 1914 was packed with strategic industries- coal, the mills (uniforms) and light and heavy engineering. Have you tried browsing through the 'Pensions' records on Ancestry, as a lot of records on there exist for men who were discharged in the early days of their enlistment?- even if they didn't qualify for a pension.

[centurion]

As the war progressed and man power became an increasingly important issue many of the former reasons for not enlisting a man were waived. The introduction of army issue glasses meant that many who would have been rejected were taken on and used in administrative roles releasing fitter men for the front. Army issue false teeth meant that rations could be managed. Men with flat feet/fallen arches might find themselves used to garrison fortified locations or trained as drivers (mechanical). I suspect that there were fair numbers of clerks, store keepers and drivers in the ASC in 1918 who would have been rejected earlier in the war,

One way out in WW2 which may have also applied in WW1 was to give the impression that one might be homosexual (whilst not actually putting one self in a position to be prosecuted) in such a case the army wouldn't touch you with a bargepole

[MickLeeds]

Joseph Lowe B. 1896

Thomas Moss B. 1884/85

There is a service record for a Gnr Joseph Lowe (220995) Royal Garrison Artillery

Born: Abt 1888, Pemberton, Lancashire.

Address: 30 Enfield Street, Pemberton, Wigan.

Father: Thomas Lowe.

Served: From 04/06/1918-12/08/1918 with the 33rd Battery, No 4 Reserve Brigade (Siege) RGA at Aldershot.

Discharged as physically unfit for service.

If this is not your man there are approx. 80 medal index cards for men named Joseph Lowe so its possible he could be one of these but it will take some whittling down with most of the service records missing.

Mick.

[Tom Lang]

I believe that if a man was employed in the production of food (farming, etc.) or energy (coal mining, etc.) then this was a valid reason to be 'excused'.

Until, of course, the call for miners to become tunnellers.

Kindest Regards,

Tom Lang.

[centurion]

I believe that if a man was employed in the production of food (farming, etc.) or energy (coal mining, etc.) then this was a valid reason to be 'excused'.

.

Kindest Regards,

Tom Lang.

But not a cast iron guarantee